LOFTON / Re: From the list custodian

Volokh, Eugene VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu
Thu Jul 31 19:13:58 PDT 2008


    I don't insist that people speak in thousands of words -- but in my
experience, "pithy" one-liners rarely tell us much, and beyond that,
most law professors who specialize in the field have heard pretty much
all the pithy one-liners before.  We've heard that church and state
should be separate, and we know how many different interpretations there
are of that.  We've heard that all government is "religious" under
certain sufficiently broad definitions of "religion," but that doesn't
really tell us what government actions with regard to religion are
permissible.
 
    Now I know that some people disagree, and find such generalities
more helpful than I do.  And naturally, different list operators may
have different views on the subject.  But, on this list, I hope you'd be
good enough to accommodate my preferences on this score.
 
    Eugene


________________________________

	From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of JOHN LOFTON
	Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:56 PM
	To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
	Subject: LOFTON / Re: From the list custodian
	
	
	There's no such thing as a "purely secular" government. And do
you have software that automatically gripes about whatever I say? Every
time I post something that's pithy, to the point, packed with wisdom,
and with no bloviating, you complain. And my most recent statement, and
the one that begins this post, is designed precisely to "foster concrete
discussion." I realize why many lawyers believe that something, in order
to make sense, must be said in thousands of words, but I disagree. Am I
allowed to disagree? Perhaps we might begin a "concrete discussion", Mr.
List Custodian, with  you saying what you mean by "purely secular." Or
we might even discuss what constitutes a "concrete discussion." Thank
you.
	
	
	John Lofton, Editor, TheAmericanView.com
	Recovering Republican
	
	"Accursed is that peace of which revolt from God is the bond,
and blessed are those contentions by which it is necessary to maintain
the kingdom of Christ." -- John Calvin.


	-----Original Message-----
	From: Volokh, Eugene <VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu>
	To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
<religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu>
	Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:50 pm
	Subject: From the list custodian
	
	
	    Folks:  Let me mention again that list discussion tends to
be most helpful when it goes into concrete and detailed analysis, and
not cliche generalities.
	 
	    Recall that the thread began with a post discussing what
protection should be offered to speech that's critical of religion.  I'm
pretty sure that generalities about "government and religion should [be
kept separate]" or "all government is religious" are not that helpful
here; at that level of abstraction, those generalities tell us very
little about how particular speech restrictions should be treated.  
	 
	    For instance, even a purely secular government might choose
to ban certain statements about religious groups, alongside certain
statements about races, sexual orientations, and the like, because of a
concern that such statements might cause violent reactions by their
targets, might incite violence against their targets, or might simply
cause unjustified emotional distress to their targets.  I oppose such
restrictions, but I can't defend that opposition through generalities
such as separation of church and state.  Conversely, even a
religiously-based government might well decide not to ban speach
critical of various religions.
	 
	    More broadly, please note that the main purpose of this list
is to foster concrete discussion -- discussion useful to legal academics
-- on technical legal questions related to the law of government and
religion.  
	 
	    Eugene


________________________________

		From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
<mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu?> ] On Behalf Of JOHN LOFTON
		Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:38 PM
		To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
		Subject: LOFTON / Re: Defamation of Religion
		
		
		ALL government is "religious." The only question is:
Which "religion" will a government be based on. 
		
		
		John Lofton, Editor, TheAmericanView.com
		Recovering Republican
		
		"Accursed is that peace of which revolt from God is the
bond, and blessed are those contentions by which it is necessary to
maintain the kingdom of Christ." -- John Calvin.


		-----Original Message-----
		From: CAROL MOORE <alclegal at bellsouth.net>
		To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
		Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 5:34 pm
		Subject: RE: Defamation of Religion
		
		
		And if this discussion doesn't make one want to dig up
James Madison and
		kiss his molding corpse for penning "Congress shall make
no law respecting
		the establishment of religion..." I don't know what
would.  With all due
		respect to those who profess belief, government and
religion should have
		separate bedrooms, if not separate houses, with no
conjugal visits.  This
		trend puts Nixon's domino theory in a new light.
		Carol Moore
		Gentle Reader  
		
		
		
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