Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith- msnbc.com

Tue Jul 22 22:37:06 PDT 2008

This list is for discussion of the legal and constitutional issues, not for
the imagined social consequences. I'm afraid you'll have to peddle the myth
that the country went to hell when we "kicked God out of schools" to a
different (perhaps less educated) audience.

Ed Brayton

From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Gordon James
Klingenschmitt
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:53 PM
To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith- msnbc.com

Ed writes about teaching about the Bible (as an optional elective) in public
schools, "the result is going to be very ugly and very expensive."  

Yet leading cultural indicators show that since 1960 in America, violent
crime has increased by 560 percent, illegitimate birth rates have increased
more than 400 percent, teen suicide is up over 200 percent, the divorce rate
has more than doubled, and the percentage of families headed by a single
parent has more than tripled.

It seems to me, thanks to courts and judges that enforce state atheism and
Ed's social experiment upon our families and children, by taking Bibles and
prayer OUT of public schools, that...

"the result has already been very ugly and very expensive."  

In Jesus name,
Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt

Charles Haynes <CHaynes at freedomforum.org> wrote:

I agree that much more guidance is needed (along the lines suggested in the
consensus guidelines we issued in 2000 -- "The Bible and Public Schools: A
First Amendment Guide"
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about.aspx?id=6261. What puzzles me,
however, is why the State Board fails to mention the requirements for
training as outlined in Section 21.549 of the Texas "Bible Bill." Perhaps
that is the next step... but there is no mention of it in the the board's
decision this week.
If the training requirements mandated by the bill are followed, then many of
the problems might be avoided... But with groups out there pushing
unconstitutional Bible materials (such as those at issue in the
recently-settled lawsuit in Odessa) it will be difficult to monitor what is
going on across the state. Charles Haynes

21.459. BIBLE COURSE TRAINING. (a) The commissioner 

shall develop and make available training materials and other 

teacher training resources for a school district to use in 

assisting teachers of elective Bible courses in developing:

(1) expertise in the appropriate Bible course 

curriculum;

(2) understanding of applicable supreme court rulings 

and current constitutional law regarding how Bible courses are to 

be taught in public schools objectively as a part of a secular 

program of education;

(3) understanding of how to present the Bible in an 

objective, academic manner that neither promotes nor disparages 

religion, nor is taught from a particular sectarian point of view;

(4) proficiency in instructional approaches that 

present course material in a manner that respects all faiths and 

religious traditions, while favoring none; and

(5) expertise in how to avoid devotional content or 

proselytizing in the classroom.

(b) The commissioner shall develop materials and resources 

under this section in consultation with appropriate faculty members 

at institutions of higher education.

(c) The commissioner shall make the training materials and 

other teacher training resources required under Subsection (a) 

available to Bible course teachers through access to in-service 

training.

(d) The commissioner shall use funds appropriated for the 

purpose to administer this section.

Charles Haynes
The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center
555 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001
202/292-6293 - office

703/683-1924 home office

________________________________

From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Ed Brayton
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 1:56 AM
To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith- msnbc.com

Having seen some of the material already at use in many Bible courses in
Texas, I can only say that the State board of education is being incredibly
irresponsible in not spelling out exactly what can and can't be taught in
such classes. Local school districts are inevitably going to teach this
course in constitutionally dubious ways without such guidance. Terri Leo
claims that providing such guidelines might lead to a lawsuit; not providing
them is going to lead to many such suits - and sooner rather than later.
They are doing the same thing the Louisiana legislature is doing with the
recent "academic freedom" legislation, inviting local schools into a "Dover
trap." The result is going to be very ugly and very expensive.

Ed Brayton

-----Original Message-----
From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbens, Daniel G.
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:20 PM
To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith- msnbc.com

Justice Brennan's well-known statement, concurring in Schempp, 374 US at
300: "teaching about the Bible" "in classes in literature or history" is
permissible. As literature, surely teaching about the Bible is different
from other literature items, distinctively involving the necessity of
treating these issues:

The fact that some people believe it (or some of it) is "the word of God" --
others believe that it is essential to understanding their religion --
others believe it is interesting literature but otherwise irrelevant -- and
thinking internationally, it is one several books presenting similar issues,
e.g., the Koran.

Arguably, if teachers are not so advised/trained, there are indeed critical
church-state issues.

Dan
Daniel G. Gibbens
Regents' Professor of Law Emeritus
University of Oklahoma

-----Original Message-----
From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Sogol
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:41 AM
To: Religionlaw
Subject: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith- msnbc.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25742567/

Joel Sogol

_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw

Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or
wrongly) forward the messages to others.

_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw

Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or
wrongly) forward the messages to others.

_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw

Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted;
people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly)
forward the messages to others.

_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw

Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted;
people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly)
forward the messages to others.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.ucla.edu/pipermail/religionlaw/attachments/20080723/6b61bfbb/attachment.htm 