"Mormon Student"

Thu Sep 6 05:17:20 PDT 2007

So let me review the bidding:  Someone who wants to engage in a year of "community service" spreading the word about the Ku Klux Klan is entitled to take the year off (to say no would be to engage in forbidden viewpoint discrimination), but a student who invoked the 5th Commandment to take off a year to take care of one's infirm parents would not.  If the latter student is given the leave, then why wouldn't violate the EP clause to refuse the year off to a secular student who wants to take care of parents.  And, by this time, aren't we effectively saying to any scholarship recipient that "you can take off a year (or, as with Mormon students, two years) off for any reason at all"?

Given that any self-respecting university engages in viewpoint discrimination all the time in constructing curricula and grading papers, would it be illegitimate for a university to refuse a leave in order to study astrology on the grounds that it is a bogus field that in no way contributes to a student's intellectual growth.  (Studying the history of astrology as a belief system would be something else, of course.)  

Paul is unusually tactful in his argument regarding religion.  Surely there are some religions that strike any secular rationalist as "irrational."  That people I respect have all sorts of religious views doesn't translate into my finding it "rational" to have at least some of them.  That's what "leaps of faith" are all about.  One should recall Tertullian, who, I believe, said (something like) "I believe because it is absud."  As to (classical) Mormon theology, incidentally, I strongly recommend Richard Bushman's superb biography of Joseph Smith.  Bushman is a practicing Mormon and an excellent historian by any criteria.  With regard to the translation of the Golden Plates (assuming their existence in the first place), one must indeed make all sorts of leaps of faith.  This is no less true, of course, with regard to many aspects of Judaism and Christianity.  

sandy

________________________________

From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Brownstein, Alan
Sent: Thu 9/6/2007 12:16 AM
To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: "Mormon Student"

I agree with Mark's response -- if an exemption is provided for secular expressive activities, there is no free speech issue created by granting a similar exemption for religious expressive activities. Indeed, under current authority, granting the exemption may be required by the free speech clause even if it is not required by the free exercise clause.

Alan Brownstein

________________________________

From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Scarberry, Mark
Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 9:02 PM
To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: "Mormon Student"

Alan raises a good point but I think we should not assume that the term community service (as applied by the state in deciding whether to grant a leave of absence) necessarily is limited to "good works" of the kind Alan probably has in mind. 

To the extent community service is a permitted ground for a leave of absence, one might ask whether community service of the community organization variety or consciousness raising variety or advocacy variety (e.g., for an environmental cause) is included. If so there should be no basis for excluding religious activities that are similar.

Mark S. Scarberry
Professor, Pepperdine University School of Law
Robert M. Zinman Scholar in Residence, American Bankruptcy Institute (Fall 2007)

________________________________

From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Brownstein, Alan
Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 3:00 PM
To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: "Mormon Student"

Fred's comment (and, by the way, Hi Fred, nice to have you back
contributing to the list, even if it is only on a very occasional
basis), made me think of a question that had been in the back of my mind
since this thread began.

I don't know if it is possible to answer this question with any degree
of accuracy, but how much of a Mormon mission is dedicated to, for want
of a better term, we might describe as good works and how much is
dedicated to spreading the faith or proselytizing missionary work. The
reason I ask is that while both types of a religious mission may
constitute the exercise of religion, it is harder to justify an
exemption for religious activities that are primarily expressive and
more to the point expressive in the sense that one is trying to persuade
an audience of people outside the faith to change their ideas and
beliefs. Creating exemptions for religious speech in situations where
similar exemptions for secular expressive activities are not available
raises free speech concerns about viewpoint discrimination.

Alan Brownstein

-----Original Message-----
From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Fred Gedicks
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:31 PM
To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
Subject: "Mormon Student"

It's been literally years since I posted on this site, but I am a
regular lurker.

I'm not sure that "choice" really solves anything, but FWIW, here is my
answer to Paul's question, as an active (if slightly heterodox) Mormon.
And like a lot of religious or theological questions, the answer is
complicated, so I hope this is not too long.

Formally, a mission is optional.  There is no LDS church doctrine or
policy which prevents a young man from full participation in all the
ordinances of the church if he fails to serve a mission.  I know a
number of older men who did not serve missions when they were young who
are fully engaged in church leadership positions.  (As some of you may
know, Mormons have a lay priesthood.)

Informally, however, there are powerful influences that make serving a
mission at age 19 culturally or socially, if not theologically,
mandatory for young men.  (For women, a mission is truly optional--i.e.,
formally and informally.  Don't make me explain why.)  The entire youth
program of the church is focused on getting young men to serve missions
at 19.  Church leaders talk about it incessantly.  If you choose not to
go, a variety of informal social/cultural penalties are triggered.  All
your  church buddies disappear on their own missions.  People (including
your parents) wonder why you're not going, whispers of "worthiness" or
"testimony problems" circulate in the hallway.  Active Mormon women
won't date you, or won't date you seriously.  In youth congregations you
won't be considered for the more responsible callings.  You're viewed as
spiritually "less than."

It is possible to serve a mission at a later age--my recollection is
that young men remain generally eligible until age 25, and occasional
dispensations are made for those in their late 20s.  The experience of
the church, however, is that those who don't serve at 19 get caught up
by life--school, work, women, marriage, etc.--and rarely serve at a
later date.  Hence the focus on 19.

Of course, once you get married and settle into a Mormon ward, no one is
going to be asking you on a regular basis, if at all, if you served a
mission.  In fact, some folks believe it's a little impolite to ask,
unless you know the person well (which, I suppose, is evidence of the
informal belief that good Mormons serve a mission).

The bottom line is that there is no doubt among active Mormons--really,
none--that if one's aspiration is to be a fully active, believing Mormon
male who faithfullly lives the principles of the church, then you serve
a mission, and you serve it when you're 19.

To reiterate a point that someone else suggested, I have little
confidence that a court gathering evidence and trying to make a finding
on this point would get it right.

Fred

Frederick Mark Gedicks
Guy Anderson Chair & Professor of Law
Brigham Young University Law School
504 JRCB
Provo, UT 84602-8000
(801) 422-4533
(801) 422-0391(fax)
gedicksf at lawgate.byu.edu

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