"Mormon Student"

Wed Sep 5 22:14:44 PDT 2007

Some of you might be interested in how some of these issues are handled 
in Israel.

Religion is an ethnic concept.  I'm Jewish though I don't believe in god 
and do not practice any ceremonies associated with Judaism.  Many areas 
of life are organized according to religion; for example, there is no 
intermarriage between religions.

Jews are drafted, with exceptions.  A man may study in a religious 
institution instead of serving.  Women are exempted if they marry young, 
and may perform national service instead of military, in officially 
recognized programs.  CO is recognized, but hard to get. 

Christian and Moslem Arabs are not called at all for military service, 
though they can volunteer, which gives them benefits which require 
military service for eligibility.  Druze Arabs are subject to the draft.

This is very much over-simplified.

Susan

Scarberry, Mark wrote:
> Alan raises a good point but I think we should not assume that the term community service (as applied by the state in deciding whether to grant a leave of absence) necessarily is limited to "good works" of the kind Alan probably has in mind. 
>  
> To the extent community service is a permitted ground for a leave of absence, one might ask whether community service of the community organization variety or consciousness raising variety or advocacy variety (e.g., for an environmental cause) is included. If so there should be no basis for excluding religious activities that are similar.
>  
> Mark S. Scarberry
> Professor, Pepperdine University School of Law
> Robert M. Zinman Scholar in Residence, American Bankruptcy Institute (Fall 2007)
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Brownstein, Alan
> Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 3:00 PM
> To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
> Subject: RE: "Mormon Student"
>
>
>
> Fred's comment (and, by the way, Hi Fred, nice to have you back
> contributing to the list, even if it is only on a very occasional
> basis), made me think of a question that had been in the back of my mind
> since this thread began.
>
> I don't know if it is possible to answer this question with any degree
> of accuracy, but how much of a Mormon mission is dedicated to, for want
> of a better term, we might describe as good works and how much is
> dedicated to spreading the faith or proselytizing missionary work. The
> reason I ask is that while both types of a religious mission may
> constitute the exercise of religion, it is harder to justify an
> exemption for religious activities that are primarily expressive and
> more to the point expressive in the sense that one is trying to persuade
> an audience of people outside the faith to change their ideas and
> beliefs. Creating exemptions for religious speech in situations where
> similar exemptions for secular expressive activities are not available
> raises free speech concerns about viewpoint discrimination.
>
> Alan Brownstein
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> [mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Fred Gedicks
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:31 PM
> To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: "Mormon Student"
>
> It's been literally years since I posted on this site, but I am a
> regular lurker.
>
> I'm not sure that "choice" really solves anything, but FWIW, here is my
> answer to Paul's question, as an active (if slightly heterodox) Mormon.
> And like a lot of religious or theological questions, the answer is
> complicated, so I hope this is not too long.
>
> Formally, a mission is optional.  There is no LDS church doctrine or
> policy which prevents a young man from full participation in all the
> ordinances of the church if he fails to serve a mission.  I know a
> number of older men who did not serve missions when they were young who
> are fully engaged in church leadership positions.  (As some of you may
> know, Mormons have a lay priesthood.)
>
> Informally, however, there are powerful influences that make serving a
> mission at age 19 culturally or socially, if not theologically,
> mandatory for young men.  (For women, a mission is truly optional--i.e.,
> formally and informally.  Don't make me explain why.)  The entire youth
> program of the church is focused on getting young men to serve missions
> at 19.  Church leaders talk about it incessantly.  If you choose not to
> go, a variety of informal social/cultural penalties are triggered.  All
> your  church buddies disappear on their own missions.  People (including
> your parents) wonder why you're not going, whispers of "worthiness" or
> "testimony problems" circulate in the hallway.  Active Mormon women
> won't date you, or won't date you seriously.  In youth congregations you
> won't be considered for the more responsible callings.  You're viewed as
> spiritually "less than."
>
> It is possible to serve a mission at a later age--my recollection is
> that young men remain generally eligible until age 25, and occasional
> dispensations are made for those in their late 20s.  The experience of
> the church, however, is that those who don't serve at 19 get caught up
> by life--school, work, women, marriage, etc.--and rarely serve at a
> later date.  Hence the focus on 19.
>
> Of course, once you get married and settle into a Mormon ward, no one is
> going to be asking you on a regular basis, if at all, if you served a
> mission.  In fact, some folks believe it's a little impolite to ask,
> unless you know the person well (which, I suppose, is evidence of the
> informal belief that good Mormons serve a mission).
>
> The bottom line is that there is no doubt among active Mormons--really,
> none--that if one's aspiration is to be a fully active, believing Mormon
> male who faithfullly lives the principles of the church, then you serve
> a mission, and you serve it when you're 19.
>
> To reiterate a point that someone else suggested, I have little
> confidence that a court gathering evidence and trying to make a finding
> on this point would get it right.
>
> Fred
>
> Frederick Mark Gedicks
> Guy Anderson Chair & Professor of Law
> Brigham Young University Law School
> 504 JRCB
> Provo, UT 84602-8000
> (801) 422-4533
> (801) 422-0391(fax)
> gedicksf at lawgate.byu.edu
>
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>   
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