"Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up"

[Douglas Laycock]

But if he enlists in the military, he presumably doesn't get a year's 
leave for anything else either -- certainly not to go do community 
service for a year.

Quoting Paul Finkelman <pfink at albanylaw.edu>:

> The "choice" issue, at least for me, is not about being a neo-atheist,
> since I am not one.  The issues here is seems is that the student does
> have "choice" to not do the mission.  As I understand it not all Mormons
> do; and no one has answered the question as to the timing of the
> mission. MUST he do it at a certain age.  If not, then there is a great
> deal of choice.  He can choose to go to college and then do the mission.
> He can choose to do the mission and then go to college.  I assume, for
> example, that Mormons attend West Point or the other service academies
> and that they do not leave school for a year to do a mission.
>
> Try this, suppose instead of being in regular university the student was
> at a service academy and therefore a member of the military -- which is
> a choice.  And then asks for a leave to go on a mission.   Suppose he is
> not a student but enlists at 17 or 18, serves until 19 and as he is
> about to be shipped to Iraq  says I need a leave for a year.  I don't
> think he gets it and I don't see how that would be a necessary
> accommodation of religious practice.
>
> I have never suggested people are "irrational" in their belief and I
> find David's suggestion that I have to be way over the top.
>
> Paul Finkelman
> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law
>     and Public Policy
> Albany Law School
> 80 New Scotland Avenue
> Albany, New York   12208-3494
>
> 518-445-3386
> pfink at albanylaw.edu
>>>> davideguinn at hotmail.com 09/05/07 9:41 AM >>>
> It does seem to me that one of the most compelling arguments in favor of
> religious freedom is the recognition that religious belief is not simply
> a matter of choice--like deciding whether or not to join a fraternity or
> sorority.  As Calvin and Paul suggested, it is a product of grace.  That
> does not mean that people of faith are irrational with respect to the
> theology that grows out of that belief, it does mean that faith touches
> something much deeper and more profound.
>
> That said, I think the evangelical fervor displayed by the neo-atheists
> (as E.J. Dionne so aptly labels them) demonstrates that this religious
> connection can attach to a materialist ideology as well as a
> transcendentalist one.  The mistake Harris and company make is in
> thinking that their choices are purely rational and that everyone should
> believe exactly as they do.  (Sounds like some religious fundamentalists
> to me.)
>
> In this sense, I think the issue does touch significantly on religion
> and law.
>
> David
>
>
> From: RJLipkin at aol.comDate: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:58:10 -0400Subject: Re:
> "Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up"To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
>
>        I'd welcome an on-list discussion of this matter, with Eugene's
> permission of course.Bobby      Robert Justin LipkinProfessor of
> LawWidener University School of LawDelawareRatio Juris, Contributor:
> http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/Essentially Contested America,
> Editor-In-Chief http://www.essentiallycontestedamerica.org/
>
>
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Douglas Laycock
Yale Kamisar Collegiate Professor of Law
University of Michigan Law School
625 S. State St.
Ann Arbor, MI  48109-1215
  734-647-9713