"Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up"

[David E. Guinn]

My apologies to Paul and the list for any confusion caused by my post.  I had no intention of accusing Paul of claiming people of faith were irrational.  I had assumed that Bobby's post had opened a new thread on choice and religious freedom which I was attempting to address.  My comments were about the approach taken by Harris and Dawkins (et. al.)  My mistake was in not changing the subject line. David

> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:05:34 -0400> From: pfink at albanylaw.edu> To: davideguinn at hotmail.com; religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu> Subject: RE: "Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up"> > The "choice" issue, at least for me, is not about being a neo-atheist,> since I am not one. The issues here is seems is that the student does> have "choice" to not do the mission. As I understand it not all Mormons> do; and no one has answered the question as to the timing of the> mission. MUST he do it at a certain age. If not, then there is a great> deal of choice. He can choose to go to college and then do the mission.> He can choose to do the mission and then go to college. I assume, for> example, that Mormons attend West Point or the other service academies> and that they do not leave school for a year to do a mission.> > Try this, suppose instead of being in regular university the student was> at a service academy and therefore a member of the military -- which is> a choice. And then asks for a leave to go on a mission. Suppose he is> not a student but enlists at 17 or 18, serves until 19 and as he is> about to be shipped to Iraq says I need a leave for a year. I don't> think he gets it and I don't see how that would be a necessary> accommodation of religious practice.> > I have never suggested people are "irrational" in their belief and I> find David's suggestion that I have to be way over the top. > > Paul Finkelman> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law> and Public Policy> Albany Law School> 80 New Scotland Avenue> Albany, New York 12208-3494> > 518-445-3386 > pfink at albanylaw.edu> >>> davideguinn at hotmail.com 09/05/07 9:41 AM >>>> It does seem to me that one of the most compelling arguments in favor of> religious freedom is the recognition that religious belief is not simply> a matter of choice--like deciding whether or not to join a fraternity or> sorority. As Calvin and Paul suggested, it is a product of grace. That> does not mean that people of faith are irrational with respect to the> theology that grows out of that belief, it does mean that faith touches> something much deeper and more profound.> > That said, I think the evangelical fervor displayed by the neo-atheists> (as E.J. Dionne so aptly labels them) demonstrates that this religious> connection can attach to a materialist ideology as well as a> transcendentalist one. The mistake Harris and company make is in> thinking that their choices are purely rational and that everyone should> believe exactly as they do. (Sounds like some religious fundamentalists> to me.)> > In this sense, I think the issue does touch significantly on religion> and law.> > David> > > From: RJLipkin at aol.comDate: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 08:58:10 -0400Subject: Re:> "Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up"To: religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu> > I'd welcome an on-list discussion of this matter, with Eugene's> permission of course.Bobby Robert Justin LipkinProfessor of> LawWidener University School of LawDelawareRatio Juris, Contributor: > http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/Essentially Contested America,> Editor-In-Chief http://www.essentiallycontestedamerica.org/> > > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.> _________________________________________________________________> Discover the new Windows Vista> http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

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