A Hypo I Am Using in Class

[Douglas Laycock]

  Rick, that's not analogous at all. Of course it doesn't matter
whether the school bought the banner or made it itself. What might
well matter, and would make it more like the library, would be if the
school covered every available space on the wall with hundreds of
banners expressing all sorts of different views, some for gay pride,
and some against.  Then it would be reasonable to say that no one
banner stated the views of the school, just as no one book in the
library states the views of the school.

  Quoting Rick Duncan <nebraskalawprof at yahoo.com>:

> Doug makes a good point about the difference between school library

> books and the govt's "own speech."
>
>   So let's put the gay pride banner on display in a public school
(as
> opposed to a public park) and have the school board remove the
banner
> under fire from dissenting parents who disagree with the display's 
> message of gay pride.
>
>   If a public school removes a gay pride display from its hallway to

> appease parents who are offended by the message, do we agree that 
> students who wish to view the gay pride banner at school have no 
> right under Pico (assuming Pico is correct on its facts) to
complain
> about the effect of the removal on their right to receive ideas?
>
>   Does it really matter whether the school made the gay pride banner

> itself by using cardboard squares and colored pens or went out and 
> purchased, say, a painting by a local artist that captures the 
> school's support for gay pride?
>
>   Rick Duncan
>
> Douglas Laycock <laycockd at umich.edu> wrote:
>     I think that when the govt puts up a display in a park, it is
the
> government's speech?  Who else could be speaking?
>   I think that part of the logic of Pico is that when there are 1000

> or 5000 books in a school library, each of which has its own
author,
> no individual book is the government's speech.  So that even though

> Rick's hypo parallels Pico in focusing on removal, it remains 
> importantly different.
>   Quoting Rick Duncan <nebraskalawprof at yahoo.com>:
>
>> "Christopher C. Lund" <chlund1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>   "And, finally, note that Pico involved a school library -- the
>> constitutional obligations on the library were created by the
>> school's duties to their students.  (The plurality's opinion
relies
>> heavily on Tinker v. Des Moines.)  A school library's decision to
>> take out books directly impacts what its students can read; a
>> decision to take down a display does not have a similar effect."
>>
>>
>>   Hmmm. The school's decision to remove upopular books from a
school
>> library did not interfere with the students' rights to read the
>> books. The books were freely available in the city's public (as
>> opposed to school) libraries and in bookstores. The 1A evil in
Pico
>> was removal of ideas from a willing audience to appease those who
>> disagreed with those ideas.
>>
>>   In my gay pride hypo, the removal of ideas to appease critics is
at
>> least as harmful as in Pico, because unlike books which are widely
>> available, the particular gay pride display may not be otherwise
>> available to those who wish to view it.
>>
>>   Again, I disagree with the plurality in Pico, but many others
>> (including some of my students and colleagues) think the Ct's
>> reasoning in Pico was sound. And if it is sound....
>>
>>   Rick Duncan
>>
>>
>>
>>   Rick Duncan
>> Welpton Professor of Law
>> University of Nebraska College of Law
>> Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
>>
>>
>> "It's a funny thing about us human beings: not many of us doubt
God's
>> existence and then start sinning. Most of us sin and then start
>> doubting His existence."  --J. Budziszewski (The Revenge of
>> Conscience)
>>
>>   "Once again the ancient maxim is vindicated, that the perversion
of
>> the best is the worst." -- Id.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo!
Travel.
>
>
> Douglas Laycock
> Yale Kamisar Collegiate Professor of Law
> University of Michigan Law School
> 625 S. State St.
> Ann Arbor, MI  48109-1215
>   734-647-9713
> _______________________________________________
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>
>   Rick Duncan
> Welpton Professor of Law
> University of Nebraska College of Law
> Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
>
>
> "It's a funny thing about us human beings: not many of us doubt
God's
> existence and then start sinning. Most of us sin and then start 
> doubting His existence."  --J. Budziszewski (The Revenge of 
> Conscience)
>
>   "Once again the ancient maxim is vindicated, that the perversion
of
> the best is the worst." -- Id.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see 
> what's on, when.

Douglas Laycock
Yale Kamisar Collegiate Professor of Law
University of Michigan Law School
625 S. State St.
Ann Arbor, MI  48109-1215
  734-647-9713

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