From the list custodian

Tue Sep 6 12:12:37 PDT 2005

    Folks:  I'm sure that people on this list would be able to compile
lists of the great sins of atheists and atheistic regimes; of Muslims;
of Jews; of Catholics; of Protestants; and more.  They would also be
able to compile lists of the good things that each of those groups have
done.  Whether religion (or irreligion) generally, or certain
denominations in particular, are on balance malign or benign influences
on the nation is a topic that has been debated for centuries, and has
filled volumes.  It can easily fill days and days of list discussion,
too, should people choose to embark on it.

    But do we really think that posting such lists -- no matter how much
the post may entertain the author -- will be helpful to thoughtful,
reasoned list discussion of the law of government and religion?

    The list custodian

Paul Finkelman <paul-finkelman at utulsa.edu> wrote:

Dear Rick:

I would assume that UC has equivalent courses such as "History of 
Christianity"; "Renaissance/Reformation" and a number of early modern 
European courses and late antiquity courses that deal almost entirely 
with the Church and Church history. There are probably courses on the 
Bible taught in various departments at UC as they are in most 
universities. Moreover, the history of religion pops up all over the 
place. When I used to teach US Survery in a history department I always 
spent at least a week on the Puritans and assigned a book about them. 
My discussion of 19th century reform movements included a good deal on 
the 2nd great awakening; I always had a lecture on the 1st great 
awkening in a survey course. Every colonial history course I ever took 
(or knew of) had a huge section on religion. In anything, colonialists 
probably spend too much time on the Puritans.

Furthermore, I would imagine that a great number of the courses below 
would have content about Christians and Christianity, including 
"Storytelling," "Gender, Sexuality, and Identity in Literature," (lots 
of interesting religious issues there, from the problem of guilt to 
fundamentalist hombophobia) "Jewish History," (had to teach it without 
discussing Christianity); Turning Points in Jewish History (same 
comment); Issues in African History (from Missionaries to Bishop Tutu it

will show up); Holocaust Literature, Islam, etc. will all have to 
discuss Christianity and its relationship to other faiths and events.

I think a course on the "Influence of Christianity in the US" would be 
interesting and certainly valid. Such a course would lectures and 
readings on the following (in no particular order):

The KKK (and the use of the Cross as a symbol of terrorism and hatred; 
Christian "identity" movements in the last 25 years
Father Coughlin's antisemitism
The hanging of witches in Salem and Quakers in Boston
The use of Christian theology to defend (as well as attack) slavery
The use of conversion of slaves to help prevent resistance to slavery
Ownership of slaves by churches
The utter failure of the Protestant Churches in the South to the take a 
strong stand in favor of legalizing slave marriages
The persecution of Mormons and the murder of Joseph Smith
The death penalty (fortunately reduced to exile) for a Jew in colonial 
Maryland because he denied the divinity of Christ
The whipping and jailing of Baptist ministers in Virginia in the 
Revolutionary period.
The intellectual intolerance of the 1920s (and more recent periods) by 
prohibiting the teaching of evolution in the public schools
The forced reading of Protestant version of the Bible imposed on 
Catholics in the 19th century
The a! ttacks on Al Smith's presidential campaign (and also attack on
John 
F. Kennedy) because they were Catholic.
The strong stand against integration taken by virtually ever southern 
Christian minister in the 1950s and early 1960s.
The influence of religious groups in undermining Indian culture and 
religion and forcing Indian children not to learn their own language.
The use of Protestant theology (and the influence of Christian leaders) 
to justify wars against Indians, particularly in the colonial period.

Yes, it would be a great course; I would love to teach it.

Paul Finkelman
-- 
Paul Finkelman
Chapman Distinguished Professor
University of Tulsa College of Law
3120 East 4th Place
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74104-2499

918-631-3706 (office)
918-631-2194 (fax)

paul-finkelman at utulsa.edu

Rick Duncan wrote:
> If you haven't read the complaint 
> 
> in the Association of Christian Schools v. UC case, I encourage you to

> do so. Although UC denied approval to courses concerning
> "Christianity's Influence on American History" and "Christianity and 
> Morality in American Literature" as being too narrow and not
consistent 
> "with knowledge generally accepted in the collegiate community," at
the 
> same time it approved courses such as these:
> 
> Social Commentary in Popular Music
> Baseball, Literature and Culture
> Sports Fiction/Non Fiction
> Storytelling
> The Roots of Rock Music ("yeah, yeah, yeah")
> Gender Roles in Literature
> Ethnic Experience in Literature
> Gender, Sexuality, and Identity in Literature
> Literature of the Counterculture
> Literature from the 60's Movement
> Filipino Heritage Studies
> Intro to Rabbinic Literature
> Jewish History
> Turning Poi! nts in Jewish History
> Issues in African History
> Raza Studies
> History of India
> Mexican History
> Modern Irish History
> Asian Literature
> Holocaust Literature
> Chicano Literature
> Beat Literature (like, cool, man!)
> Women's Literature
> Intro to Buddhism
> Islam
> 
> And the beat goes on. There were many similar courses that were 
> also approved. 
> 
> Now these facts are from the complaint. UC may reply that it has not 
> approved Beat Literature or Baseball Literature or the other 
> narrow courses from specialized points of view. But if these are the 
> facts. this case looks very much like the kind of religious
gerrymander 
> we saw in Lukumi where a person could kill an animal for almost any 
> reason except religious ritual. And it also looks like the kind of 
> subjective, individualized, discretionary procedures that trigger !
strict 
> scrutiny under Sherbert and the individualized process rule.
> 
> I have only glanced at the 108-page complaint, but it sure looks to me

> like the Pls have a strong claim of viewpoint and religious 
> discrimination. Indeed, there seems to be at least a possibility of 
> denominational discrimination in the approval process. It would not 
> surprise me at all if UC settles this one as quickly and quietly as 
> possible.
> 
> Rick Duncan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick Duncan
> Welpton Professor of Law
> University of Nebraska College of Law
> Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
> 
> "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad
or 
> Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
> 
> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or

> numbered." --The Prisoner
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
> 
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly
or wrongly) forward the messages to others.

_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw at lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw

Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly
or wrongly) forward the messages to others.

Rick Duncan 
Welpton Professor of Law 
University of Nebraska College of Law 
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902

"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or
Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or
numbered." --The Prisoner 

  _____  

Click here to donate to the  <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/>
Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.ucla.edu/pipermail/religionlaw/attachments/20050906/353c8abe/attachment.html