Required to stand for the Pledge?

[Ann Althouse]

I think so. Laughing at religion is quite a powerful form of 
expression: he had a taste for it and it really bugged the other 
students. Critiquing religion in the philosophical mode does not cut so 
sharply.

Ann

On Sep 10, 2004, at 2:27 PM, marc stern wrote:

> Good point, but it merely illustrates how difficult it is sometimes to
> reconcile constitutional law with the real world. But would your 
> offending
> student have been less offensive if he respectfully asked hard 
> questions
> about religion premised on Marx' view of religion?
> Marc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> [mailto:religionlaw-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Ann Althouse
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
> Subject: Re: Required to stand for the Pledge?
>
> Calling attention to the student's difference might be emotionally
> wounding to this student too. ("Class, please tolerate Susie, she's
> different.") But I agree that tolerating the different student is
> better.
>
> In my class, many students were offended. One called out in a
> particularly angry way. But the derisive student was actually asking
> for it and had been escalating his mockery over a series of remarks.
>
> Ann
>
> On Sep 10, 2004, at 2:13 PM, Steven Jamar wrote:
>
>> Ann,
>>
>> I appreciate your post and sympathize with your conundrum of what
>> happened in class.  But it seems to me that to encourage showing
>> respect, the principal should have talked to the teacher and the other
>> students about respecting the minority beliefs of the affected
>> student, not the other way around!
>>
>> Why is OK to single out the different one to require her to show
>> respect to the others in accordance with what they (the majority)
>> think is right?  Refusing to stand on religious grounds does not show
>> disrespect.  And it is not uncivil, as it appears your student may
>> have been.
>>
>> BTW, why not talk to the offended person and suggest that she both
>> toughen up and lighten up a bit and show some tolerance for others who
>> may not yet be as enlightened as she is?  People should speak with the
>> understanding that what they say and the way the say it and where they
>> say it matters.  But people should also listen with compassion and the
>> understanding that not all of us express ourselves perfectly or
>> exactly as someone else would like us to (or even as we would like to)
>> all the time.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>> This seems like an excellent example of a good time for the school to
>>> just give an apology. But I wonder if there is any legal violation in
>>> talking to students about the advisability of being respectful to the
>>> feelings and beliefs of the other students. We were discussing US v.
>>> Lee in my Religion and the Law class yesterday, and one of the
>>> students was characterizing the Amish in a way that was a bit
>>> derisive and another student snapped at him. That was the first time
>>> in 3 years of teaching the course that there was ever any discomfort
>>> in talking about the sensitive topic of religion. As the class was
>>> leaving, I motioned him over and said something to the effect that
>>> people in the class are used to a tradition of speaking very
>>> respectfully about religious beliefs, and that he might want to tone
>>> it down lest people get mad at him. He's a law student of course, and
>>> the girl in the news is a middle school student, but I do feel that
>>> what I was doing was similar to what this principal did: encouraging
>>> a student to show more respect in the classroom.
>>>
>>> Ann
>>
>> -- 
>> Prof. Steven D. Jamar                                     vox:
>> 202-806-8017
>> Howard University School of Law                           fax:
>> 202-806-8428
>> 2900 Van Ness Street NW	
>> mailto:sjamar at law.howard.edu
>> Washington, DC  20008
>> http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar
>>
>> "Years ago my mother used to say to me... 'In this world Elwood' ...
>> She always used to call me Elwood... 'In this world Elwood, you must
>> be Oh So Smart, or Oh So Pleasant.' Well for years I was smart -- I
>> recommend pleasant.  You may quote me." --Elwood P. Dowd
>>
>> - Mary Chase, "Harvey", 1950
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Prof. Steven D. Jamar                                 vox:
>> 202-806-8017
>> Howard University School of Law                       fax:
>> 202-806-8428
>> 2900 Van Ness Street NW	
>> mailto:sjamar at law.howard.edu
>> Washington, DC  20008
>> http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar
>>
>> Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust
>> doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up
>> for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth
>> corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where
>> your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
>>
>> Matthew 6:19-21
>>
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