Seminole County School Board Announces New Guidelines Which P ermit High School Choir To Sing At Religious Events

[AJCONGRESS]

The Eleventh Circuit held the Church Arson Act unconstitutional as applied
in US v. BAllinger (11th Cir.2002).The case 01-14872.The Court held that the
conviction could not stand in light of US v. Morrison.
Marc Stern

-----Original Message-----
From: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
[mailto:RELIGIONLAW at listserv.ucla.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Newsom
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:50 PM
To: RELIGIONLAW at listserv.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: Seminole County School Board Announces New Guidelines Which
P ermit High School Choir To Sing At Religious Events


Actually, Rick, it does not tear me apart.  I am a liberal (I guess, because
I am not a member of the political right wing and have voted for a only one
or two Republicans for anything in over twenty years -- and that is largely
because the goofy election laws in the District of Columbia, America's last
mainland colony, don't allow Democrats to compete for all at-large council
positions -- and have no intention of changing my voting habits anytime
soon) and am in no way conflicted about this matter.  See my earlier posts.
In much the same way I am not conflicted on the school voucher question,
even though some African Americans support vouchers.

Perhaps my lack of conflict stems from the fact that I am an African
American and understand the dynamics the underlie the question or issue of
ostensible black support for conservative, right-wing positions.  I and many
blacks take with a grain of salt the efforts of white conservatives to use
black people as fronts for their reactionary agendas.  (More shameless
self-promotion.  I am finishing up a piece on Clarence Thomas which explores
these dynamics, among other things.  The hard truth, for present purposes,
is that even black "conservatives" vote left, not right.  And for this there
are very good reasons indeed, rooted, I am fain to say, in history, among
other things.)

I will leave it, therefore, for white liberals to say whether or not they
are conflicted.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Duncan" <conlawprof at YAHOO.COM>
To: <RELIGIONLAW at listserv.ucla.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Seminole County School Board Announces New Guidelines Which P
ermit High School Choir To Sing At Religious Events


I guess I just don't see the problem with a Gospel
Choir. It is clear that public schools can teach
*about* religion, as long as they don't engage in
prayer or religious devotions.

Gospel Music is an important genre of music. Students
should be able to study it and perform it as an art
form, so long as the teacher is careful not to endorse
it as prayer or devotions. The fact that it is an
important part of African American culture adds to its
secular functionality as part of the public school
program.

By the way, I love the way this issue tears liberals
apart. They have to choose between two of their
favorite isms-- strict separationism and
multiculturalism. What, oh what, is a good liberal to
do in a case like this!!!

Cheers from the multicultural right, Rick Duncan


--- Michael Newsom <mnewsom at LAW.HOWARD.EDU> wrote:
> I am not sure that the "opt out" remedy suffices.
> It didn't work in Engel
> and Schempp.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Rahdert" <mark.rahdert at TEMPLE.EDU>
> To: <RELIGIONLAW at listserv.ucla.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Seminole County School Board Announces
> New Guidelines Which P
> ermit High School Choir To Sing At Religious Events
>
>
> > A variation on Bob's concern:  could objecting
> students in the choir be
> > required to participate in performances at
> religious services?  My
> > experience as an avid singer with many choral
> groups tells me there would
> > at least be heavy pressure to perform, if not an
> outright requirement.  My
> > instincts as a constitutional lawyer tell me they
> should have a
> > constitutionally grounded right to refuse to
> attend.
> >
> > Mark Rahdert
> >
> > At 05:52 PM 11/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I think Horwitz concerns about the organization
> of the group are very
> > >important.
> > >
> > >If this is merely a cluborganized by the
> students, then there is little
> > >concern.  However, if this is a class offered for
> credit, the matter is
> > >quite different.  Let us imagine a Catholic child
> who needs one more
> class
> > >to graduate, who has a good voice and a love of
> singing.   The child
> > >discovers all the other chorus classes are full
> and decides to enroll in
> the
> > >gospel choir.  If the choir then is sent by the
> school to sing at a
> > >Protestant service, a profound violation has
> occurred.
> > >
> > >(I had a case like this where Catholic sisters
> were sent to a Protestant
> > >church to sing; the chorus teacher formed the
> students in a circle in the
> > >church basement before the service and asked for
> one of the children to
> > >pray.  After I complained to the superintendant
> of schools my life was
> > >threatened.)
> > >
> > >Bob O'Brien
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Horwitz, Paul" <PHorwitz at OMM.COM>
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would be inclined to agree with Rick that if
> the choir performs at
> all
> > > > kinds of events off of school grounds, it
> should not be barred from
> > > > performing at events taking place on religious
> property.  But that
> seems
> > >to
> > > > me a less important missing fact than the
> question how the choir is
> > > > organized.  Is it an informal group, a purely
> student-led group, or is
> it
> > >a
> > > > fully school-established, -led and -sponsored
> activity, on a par with,
> > >say,
> > > > an official school sports team or the school
> orchestra (and thus not
> > >simply
> > > > an "equal-access" student group)?  Are the
> school's choirs informal or
> are
> > > > they specifically school-founded creatures?
> Surely, to the extent
> it's
> > > > recognized that such a group may communicate a
> specifically religious
> > > > message, the official or unofficial nature of
> the group would present
> a
> > >more
> > > > pressing Establishment Clause concern than the
> question of where they
> > > > perform, as to which I agree that as long as
> they perform in various
> fora
> > > > they should not be prohibited from performing
> in religious fora.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >NTMail K12 - the Mail Server for Education
> >
> > Mark C. Rahdert
> > Associate Dean for Academic Affairs and
> > Professor of Law
> > Temple University
> > James E. Beasley School of Law
> > 1719 N. Broad St.
> > Philadelphia PA 19122-6098
> >
> > 215-204-8966
> > Fax: 215-204-2008
> >
> > mark.rahdert at temple.edu
> >
> > Please note that my email address has changed.  My
> old address
> > (mrahdert at vm.temple.edu) will expire on December
> 31, 2002.
> > Please change your email address file to reflect
> this change.


=====
"Do you not think an angel rides in the whirlwind and directs the storm."
    --President George W. Bush (quoting John Page)

"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred;
middle things are gone."  -C.S. Lewis

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