Kosher wine and antidiscrimination law

[Michael deHaven Newsom]

Rick Duncan wrote:

> Paul Finkelman mistakes a religious bookstore for an
> academic bookstore. The fact that a non-believer has a
> BA in Islamic studies does not qualify him or her one
> bit to recommend which books are most likely to
> enhance the spiritual life of an Islamic believer.

I do not see why this is so.  Perhaps we need to have a clearer
understanding of the meaning of "spiritual life."

>
>
> I would never ask an atheist to recommend a a Bible or
> a book on Christian prayer, and it would make no
> difference to me that the atheist had a PhD in
> theology. To understand the *spiritual value* of a
> book, one must be a believer.

Again, the question is what does "spiritual" mean.  On this point, I
strongly suspect that different religious and ethical traditions have
quite different answers.  Consider, for example, the disagreements
between Catholics and various Protestant groups over the meaning of Real
Presence.  They understand "spiritual" rather differently.  For those on
list who might be curious about this line of argument, please email me
off list.  Pneumatology is dicey, to put it mildly.

>
>
> I would not be offended one bit if I were denied
> employment by an Islamic bookstore because I am a
> Christian. It is perfectly reasonable to take my lack
> of belief into account, just as it would be reasonable
> for a Civil Rights bookstore to refuse to hire David
> Duke as a clerk because of his KKK philosophy. Who
> would trust David Duke's recommendations for books on
> civil rights (regardless of how much he knows about
> the literature)?

But the example does not pass the test of verisimilitude.  The likely
case will not involve a David Duke, a white, Protestant male.  It will
involve someone who does not meet two or more of the racial, religious
and gender "tests."  As a consequence, the practical dimensions of the
problem are completely contrary to the intimations of Rick's argument.

>
>
> --Rick Duncan
>
> --- Paul Finkelman  wrote:
> > I think Rick Duncan is quite wrong here.  To use his
> > example, a person
> > with a BA in Islamic Studies would be perfectly
> > suitable to work in such
> > a store; a non-Jew who reads in the field could
> > recommend literature or
> > movies in a Jewish store; I know a Christian woman
> > who totors in Hebrew,
> > and does a fine job.  None of these are issues of
> > faith, but of
> > knowledge and if we followed Duncan's position then
> > anyone could
> > discriminate against anyone else on race or
> > religion.  It is one thing
> > not to hire someone who offends customers, who is a
> > bad employee, but
> > there is no reason to think that religion, gender or
> > race can be allowed
> > to determine who is a sales clerk; it  is different
> > if the job is part
> > of the fulfillment of religious law and rules; so
> > that a Halal meat
> > store might only be able to hire a Moslem butcher,
> > or the Catholic
> > Church can only hire a Roman Catholic Priest to run
> > the service (and not
> > an Anglican Priest, no matter how good a job he or
> > she could do).
> >
> > Duncan's position would lead to discrimination
> > against lots of people,
> > which is not reasonable.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Finkelman
> > Chapman Distinguished Professor
> > University of Tulsa College of Law
> > 3120 East 4th Place
> > Tulsa, Oklahoma  74104-2499
> >
> > 918-631-3706 (office)
> > 918-631-2194 (fax)
> >
> > paul-finkelman at utulsa.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick Duncan wrote:
> >
> > > --- MSternAJC at AOL.COM wrote:
> > >
> > > >  Is the problem here that we
> > > > really don't believe that
> > > > discrimination can ever be permissible in a
> > > > commercial establishment?
> > > > Marc Stern
> > >
> > > I continue to believe that discrimination by
> > religious
> > > commercial establishments is *often quite
> > reasonable*
> > > and often constitutionally protected (because most
> > > anti-discrimination laws contain exceptions that
> > > render them non-generally-applicable).
> > >
> > > For example, consider an Islamic book store that
> > sells
> > > Islamic books, videos, etc. I believe it is quite
> > > reasonable for the owner of the bookstore to hire
> > only
> > > believers in Islam to work in the store. Since the
> > > work requires employees to make recommendations
> > about
> > > good Islamic books, it is quite reasonable for the
> > > owner of the bookstore and customers to expect
> > that
> > > employees be believers in Islam whose opinions
> > about
> > > Islamic books are more trustworthy. Just as it is
> > > reasonable for a feminist bookstore to refuse to
> > hire,
> > > say, Archie Bunker as a sales clerk, it is also
> > quite
> > > appropriate for a religious bookstore to hire only
> > > believers.
> > >
> > > --Rick Duncan
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Rick Duncan (conlawprof at yahoo.com)
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
> > Products.
> > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
> =====
> Rick Duncan (conlawprof at yahoo.com)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/