[Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

Thu Dec 2 09:47:06 PST 2010

________________________________
From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Abramovitch, Kenneth [Kenneth.Abramovitch at uth.tmc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 2:11 PM
To: Oral Radiology Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

The following response is submitted by Dr. Arthur Goren retired Professor of Oral Radiology and a longstanding contributor to the OMR community.  I am forwarding this on his behalf.  He remembers quite well some of the events that took place to get Kodak’s “B” speed film off the market in the 1960s.
I just want to put in my comments on Kodak's reluctance to take D speed film off the market. I  was involved in the publication of two papers in the late 1960's that were used to prompt Kodak to remove B speed film from the market place . The papers were Tone, Scale et. OSOMOP 21:748-60:1966  and  Radiation Quality et OSOMOP 27;467-74:1969.   This data was given to a regional representative for one of the government agencies on radiation.  The chief radiation officer for New York City issued a ban on the sale of B speed film in the city.  Kodak asked for an extention and was given two years to sell off its remaining stock of film. Kodak did not do this voluntarily. My recollection of events might be a little hazy, but in a nutshell this is what happened.
We also did a ton of H&D curves on the film, we showed them to if I remember a Mr. Carney of Kodak, we had the film speeds for B and D film. We were off on the calculated film speed by the width of the pencil point. Ever wonder why the film package does not list a film speed number? "It's proprietary information".
Our members have to get one or two of the state regulatory boards to ban the sale of D speed film so that it will be forced off the market.
Hope this helps.

Art Goren
Stony Brook, Long Island, NY

From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Benn, Douglas K.
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:11 AM
To: Oral Radiology Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

With the widespread use of office electronic patient record systems it would be very easy for the software manufacturers to automate the calculation of patient dose for each radiographic exposure to provide both patient and office population collective doses per year. This would be important data for tracking population dose as well as determining the association between dental radiography and induced disease such as the recent thyroid cancer paper.
Douglas

From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Allan G Farman
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:26 PM
To: oradlist at lists.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

Public opinion might well be the answer to moving to faster film. We will hear reverberations of the NY Times article for sometime to come and D-speed film was on their radar screen. It was in 1970 that regulation in the USA made D-speed film obsolete. Perhaps the exposure of dental imaging for children in the NY Times will make FDA consider an update of the 1970 era requirements? I would not be surprised to see stricter requirements also for dose in CBCT with some of the older units requiring upgrades to be permitted to continue in use. AGF

Allan G. Farman, BDS, PhD, MBA, DSc, Diplomate ABOMR

Prof. Radiology & Imaging Science
Univ. Louisville School of Dentistry: SUHD
501 South Preston Street,
Louisville, Kentucky 40292, USA

Tel: +1(502) 852.1241
Fax: +1(502)852.1626

>>> Kevin O Carroll <kevinocarroll45 at hotmail.com> 11/29/2010 9:07 PM >>>
I wonder what is different, market-wise, this time compared with when B speed was repalced with D speed film. My understanding was that back then Kodak just stopped selling B-speed film. That was not intended to be a rhetorical question, but now that I have asked the question, I think I remember that a Kodak rep once told me that they had no competition in the film business back then, and could afford to stop selling the old film. Not so now. Other maufacturers continue to sell D speed film. They are probably on Oradlist, so they know who they are! So do we! Sorry, folks.

Less is more, indeed.

Kevin.
Dr. M. Kevin O Carroll
Professor Emeritus
University of Mississippi
School of Dentistry

Faculty Consultant
Office of the Dean
Chiang Mai University
Faculty of Dentistry
Suthep Road
Chiang Mai 50200
THAILAND

Tel: +66-5394-4494
Fax: +66-5322-2844
E-mail: kevinocarroll45 at hotmail.com

________________________________
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:09:34 -0600
From: DouglasBenn at creighton.edu
To: oradlist at lists.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

I think this is more of a Food and Drug Administration issue since they have identical products in terms of diagnostic yield but not in safety. It would seem that the FDA should request either warning labels or removal of the D speed product. When you couple this with the recent paper of the association of thyroid cancer in Kuwait and self-reported dental radiography exposures then you have to wonder why the FDA is not being more active. Perhaps it is on their agenda?

Douglas

From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Stelt, PF. van der
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:41 AM
To: Oral Radiology Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

We sue the cigarette industry for making tobacco available (with no simple replacement for tobacco). Why not suing Kodak for still producing D-speed (with a very good replacement)?

Paul

___________________________________________

Paul F. van der Stelt, DDS, PhD

Professor of Oral and Maxillofacial Radiology

Dept. of General and Specialised Dentistry

Academic Center for Dentistry Amsterdam (ACTA)

NEW ADDRESS:

Gustav Mahlerlaan 3004, 1081 LA Amsterdam , The Netherlands

tel.: +31-20-59 80262; e-mail: p.vdstelt at acta.nl<mailto:p.vdstelt at acta.nl>

___________________________________________

From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Benn, Douglas K.
Sent: maandag 29 november 2010 17:23
To: Oral Radiology Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

Dear Ken,

About 9 months ago I made a back of the envelope calculation, it was a big envelope, that approximately 500 deaths may occur per year from dental radiography in the USA. The majority of the dose was from the use of D speed round collimation and full mouth series. I believe about 60% of dentists still use D speed film with round collimation which as John Ludlow has reported is equivalent to about 47 days of background radiation. In comparison some of the small volume CBCT machines can be as little as 5-10 days of background. Although it is absolutely right to promote the use of ALARA for CBCT by applying guidelines we should be mounting a campaign to switch from D to F speed film/digital sensors which would lower the predicted death rate to about 50-100 people per year.

Less is more... my 2 cents.

Douglas

From: oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:oradlist-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Abramovitch, Kenneth
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:05 AM
To: Oral Radiology Discussion Group
Subject: [Oradlist] Sale of "D" speed film in the USA

There was as comment a couple of weeks ago expressing surprise that "D" Speed film was still sold in the USA.  I am forwarding this sales information not for any sales promotion; but rather to demonstrate to colleagues outside of the USA the fervor of the advertising and the marketplace that still exists for intraoral film.

Regards.

K. Abramovitch

Houston, TX

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