paling around with terrorists; etc. two constitutions

Mon Oct 13 11:04:11 PDT 2008

I was just at a McCain-Palin rally, here in Virginia Beach, not two hours ago.  There were no solicitation-to-murder chants at all.  The only anti-Obama chant was "Nobama," twice, once during Palin's remarks, once during McCain's, both times in response to Obama policies mentioned by the speaker, both times shut down by "quiet now" gestures from the speaker.

Outside the hall there were numerous Obama supporters demonstrating "in the face" of the crowd filing in -- yet all exchanges were civil, on BOTH sides.  Not enlightening or deep, but definitely civil.

Either media hype is going on, or I have a knack for never being where the drama is.

All this is apart from the question of whether encountering (not inviting) an unruly supporter at a rally is the same as cultivating (or being cultivated by) a member of the Weathermen....

David M. Wagner
Regent University School of Law
Virginia Beach, VA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu [mailto:conlawprof-
> bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Finkelman
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:30 AM
> To: VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: RE: RE: paling around with terrorists; etc. two constitutions
>
> I doubt David Ifshin ever recanted on opposing the war; he just
> apologized to McCain for speaking on Hanoi radio.
> Then of course there is Palin's husband who until two years ago was a
> member of a secessionist organization in Alaska; so his running mate
> palls around with "traitors" but that is ok?  Be interesting to know if
> anyone in the Alaska secessionist movement advocates violence?
>
> And then there are the McCain rallies where people are yelling "Kill of
> Obama."  Now it is a fedreal crime to advocate murdering a president;
> does that apply to a presidential candidate too?  Since he has secret
> service protection is strikes me that the people at these rallies are
> advocating endangering federal agents.  Does that make them
> "terrorists."  Does that mean that Palin and McCain are "palling
> around" with terrorists?
>
>
>
> I do no tknow if Ayres
>
>
> Paul Finkelman
> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law
>      and Public Policy
> Albany Law School
> 80 New Scotland Avenue
> Albany, New York   12208-3494
>
> 518-445-3386
> pfink at albanylaw.edu
> >>> "Volokh, Eugene" <VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu> 10/13/08 10:18 AM >>>
>         How about this:  If you opposed American policy, but then
> publicly repented, you could still be a good guy, at least at your
> funeral.  Even if you were once a traitor (not a terrorist), public
> repentance, especially 30+ years ago, makes a big difference.
>
>         On the other hand, if you were in a conspiracy to bomb places,
> aimed at terrorizing the public, and you seem largely unrepentant,
> you're not a good guy.  Seems pretty logical to me.
>
>         Eugene
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Finkelman [mailto:pfink at albanylaw.edu]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:01 PM
> > To: isomin at gmu.edu; Volokh, Eugene
> > Cc: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > Subject: Re: RE: paling around with terrorists; etc. two
> constitutions
> >
> > And that is what this is all about, I think.  If you opposed
> > American policy but personally apologized to McCain, then you
> > are good guy; but if you did not you are a "terrorist."
> > Whatever Ayers did nearly 40 years ago hardly makes him a
> > terrorist today, except in the eyes of someone trapped in
> > time who cannot get out of the place he is in.  IN the same
> > way, McCain has made Obama "the enemy" --he will not look him
> > in the eye; refers to him as "that one."
> >
> > As for what Ifshin did, at the time his acts were considered
> > far worse than people like the Weathermen; Ifshin was branded
> > a traitor for his actions; McCain could forgive him only
> > because he recanted.
> >
> > So, McCain used to hang out with a former "traitor" at least
> > in the eyes of McCain at the time; and Obama hangs out with a
> > former "terrorist."
> >
> > Paul Finkelman
> > President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law
> >      and Public Policy
> > Albany Law School
> > 80 New Scotland Avenue
> > Albany, New York   12208-3494
> >
> > 518-445-3386
> > pfink at albanylaw.edu
> > >>> Ilya Somin <isomin at gmu.edu> 10/12/08 7:03 PM >>>
> > This 1988 column by Bill Buckley discusses how Ifshin changed
> > his mind over time, and repented of his conduct in 1970:
> >
> > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n22_v40/ai_6790822
> >
> > And here are some statements by McCain himself about how
> > Ifshin apologized to McCain himself for his earlier conduct:
> >
> > http://www.nysun.com/editorials/mccain-and-ifshin/32880/
> >
> > Essentially, Ifshin became a mainstream liberal Democrat with
> > a hawkish streak on defense. Even when he was a far left
> > student radical, he didn't resort to violence or terrorism.
> >
> > For this and the reasons indicated by Eugene, I don't think
> > Ifshin is comparable to Ayers. Maybe McCain was wrong to
> > forgive him for what he did in Hanoi. People can reasonably
> > disagree over that. But it's not the same kind of issue as
> > association with an unrepentant former terrorist.
> >
> > Ilya Somin
> > Assistant Professor of Law
> > George Mason University School of Law
> > 3301 Fairfax Dr.
> > Arlington, VA 22201
> > ph: 703-993-8069
> > fax: 703-993-8202
> > e-mail: isomin at gmu.edu
> > Website: http://mason.gmu.edu/~isomin/
> > SSRN Page: http://ssrn.com/author=333339
> >
> >
> >
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