An extraditable crime to engage in expression in Ireland which is protected in the US? Why impose a course on constitutional law on our students? More on the fallacy of irrelvance
parry at lclark.edu
Thu Jul 12 08:53:49 PDT 2007
I know you were making a larger point about the relevance of conlaw, but
strangely enough conlaw has very little relevance to international extradition
-- a bit of due process here and there and that's about it. In case you are in
touch with the public defender, he or she should start with the extradition
treaty between the US and Ireland and see whether this even falls w/in the
category of extraditable offenses. Also, it is a general principle in
extradition law that no extradition can take place if the conduct is not a
crime in both countries (dual criminality) -- which would seem to help in this
Quoting michael curtis <curtism at bellsouth.net>:
> Just about every day I come across another example that refutes the
> irrelevance of con law for lawyers. Here is one for sure, and a likely one.
> The likely one first.
> 1. A public defender inWVa has a case for a minister who counsels those
> seeking to end suffering by suicide. In Ireland counseling or encouraging is
> (I think) a crime and the minister counseled and encouraged in Ireland. Now
> Ireland seeks to extradite him for the crime of assisting suicide. (The
> facts are more complex, but this will have to do for present purposes).
> Does anyone know, is expression which would be protected in the US an
> extraditable offense if committed in a country where it is not protected?
> If the answer is no this is just another example of why understanding US
> free speech law would be important for ordinary lawyers such as public
> defenders. People's lives are often seriously affected by what their
> lawyers raise or don't raise. Ignoring con law doctrine for law students
> can have very unfortunate consequences for later clients. Of course, the
> answer is RESEARCH. But often without some idea of the general area you
> don't know where to look. And the model of the corporate lawyer paid by the
> hour for endless research is not the world with which many lawyers deal.
> 2. Of course, even in a con law course that pays some attention to
> doctrine (as well as one hopes to context) many law students leave law
> school with no knowledge of the 1sat A. because this has been consigned to a
> special course which most students do not take. This is a scandal for many,
> many reasons. A failure of law schools to train lawyers as citizens and
> lawyers as lawyers.
> Punitive damages are pervasive in tort cases & many law students will end up
> on one or the other side. So a background in due process isrelevant here.
> Michael Curtis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Graber" <mgraber at gvpt.umd.edu>
> To: <conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Why impose a course on constitutional law on our students?
> >A small errata or modification on my point. In suggesting something
> > like THE SUPREME COURT AND THE ATTITUDINAL MODEL ought to be the central
> > text of th law school version of constitutional law, I had not mean to
> > endorse Segal and Spaeth's particular analysis, either in the sense of
> > an endorsement of their use of statistics or their conclusions. My goal
> > was simply to suggest that their central question was probably more a
> > central question of law practitioners than the central questions in most
> > constitutional law texts.
> > MAG
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