Partial Birth Act Upheld
Volokh, Eugene
VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu
Thu Apr 19 10:17:38 PDT 2007
Well, if someone is telling students that people who oppose
certain kinds of abortions *only* act on their care for life "when it
involves forcing other people to take symbolic actions" -- which is to
say, they do not support any laws that protect life (e.g., drunk driving
laws, homicide laws, longer incapacitation for criminals, public health
laws) and do not take any other actions that protect life (i.e., don't
donate any money to organizations that help people live and improve
their lives) -- then that someone seems to be telling people something
that verges on slander.
On the other hand, if the claim is that people who oppose
certain kinds of abortions *do* act on their care for life in certain
ways, but that those ways are -- in the speaker's informed opinion --
inadequate, counterproductive, or not as good as the alternative, then
there's not much of an inference that these people are "not interested
in actual people," right? If a professor tells students that these
people therefore are "not interested in actual people" because they
support tools that the professor thinks are inadequate, that's logically
unsound.
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malla Pollack [mailto:mpollack at ajsl.us]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:36 AM
> To: Volokh, Eugene; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
>
> Well, this is lumping together alpha and omega.
>
> All the assults on my positiion so far have dealt only with
> the over statement which I appologized for hours ago.
> I will not take back the claim that someone who insists they
> care for "life"
> but demonstrates by their actions that they only act on this
> position when it involves forcing other people to take
> symbolic actions is not interested in actual people.
>
> Anyone who comes up with actual empirical evidence to the
> contrary is free to raise it (here or in any class I teach),
> but the current argument I see repeated here is analogous to
> a person who fires a loaded gun point blank at someone and
> then claims that calling the action "intent to kill" is
> merely misreading the evidence.
>
> Of course, for some time we did not have clear evidence on
> whether more commerce would raise the poor's living
> standanrd. Now, however, "compasionate conservatism" has had
> quite a run in the United States domesticaly and abroad. The
> empirical evidence is quite clear that it has not worked (if
> the desired outcome is actual better resources for the poor).
>
>
> Refusing to change direction when the evidence shows an
> allegeldy originall well intentioned attempt has failed is
> evidence that either you are not thinking clearly or your
> state intent is not your actual intent.
>
>
> This list discussion has been fun. However, the opposing
> posts have begun repeated themselves. I will, therefore,
> desist from replying unless in my own oppinion someone really
> makes a new argument. My silence is not change in position.
>
> Thanks everyone!
> Malla Pollack
> Professor, American Justice School of Law mpollack at ajsl.us
> 270-744-3300 x 28 articles http://works.bepress.com/malla_pollack/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Volokh, Eugene
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:15 AM
> To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
>
> And you should equally say that many conservatives
> don't think that government welfare programs do not, on
> balance, help actual people (or help them more than hurt
> them), or think -- whether rightly or wrongly -- that private
> charity is the better approach, or for that matter think that
> government help in shielding people against killing is more
> important than government help in shielding people against poverty.
> *You* may think that evidence shows that private charity and
> the market doesn't fix these problems. But other
> well-intentioned people may disagree with your interpretation
> of the evidence. To say to your constitutional law class
> that people who disagree with your sense of the evidence are
> not only mistaken on the evidence but don't "care about
> actual people" strikes me as deeply unsound (especially when
> many of them, as Earl Maltz, I think, pointed out, spend a
> good deal of time both opposing abortion and helping actual people).
>
> Eugene
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Malla Pollack [mailto:mpollack at ajsl.us]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:58 AM
> > To: Volokh, Eugene; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> >
> > No. You should say that liberals don't think that "helping poor
> > children"
> > is related to this type of choice of schools.
> >
> > The analogy, which is my original point, is that people who
> insist on
> > (i) unwanted children being born to women without the money to care
> > for them and
> > (ii) people in extreeme pain who cannot recover having to spend an
> > extra 12 months dying BUT simultaneous vote to cut budgets
> for welfare
> > of any kind and hosptial aids AND take no other action providing
> > serivces analogous to welfare or hosipital staff Have a
> definition of
> > life that discounts actual people.
> >
> > Relying on the market is the common excuse, but the
> evidence shows the
> > market does not fix these problems. Insisting on using
> one, and only
> > one, help method, in the teath of empirical evidence that
> it does not
> > work, is a clear sign (to pragmatic me) that you don't care
> abou the
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Malla Pollack
> > Professor, American Justice School of Law mpollack at ajsl.us
> > 270-744-3300 x 28 articles http://works.bepress.com/malla_pollack/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> Volokh, Eugene
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:52 AM
> > To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> >
> > Got it -- so whenever one thinks that people aren't
> supporting the
> > troops as much as one thinks ought to be the case (or in
> the way that
> > one thinks is really effective), that shows they don't really care
> > about the troops, and that's something one should tell
> one's students
> > in con law class, right? And of course in that case the analogy I
> > noted is entirely on point: If one thinks that "improvement to
> > education of poor children is simply not happening,"
> because liberals
> > don't have the proper "deep commitment" to actually giving poor
> > children educational choice, like middle- and upper-class children
> > already have, one should be telling one's con law students that
> > liberals don't really care about poor children.
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Malla Pollack [mailto:mpollack at ajsl.us]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:25 AM
> > > To: Volokh, Eugene; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > >
> > >
> > > I assume Eugene wrote this before he read my long post.
> > >
> > > OF course, his analogy is way off. I am not discussing
> > > people disagreeing
> > > about how to do something - I am talking about the fact
> that taking
> > > care of the poor is simply not happening -- and that
> polticians etc
> > > mouth concern for the theory of "life" being importtnat,
> but do not
> > > act with similar deep commitment to actual help for poor
> persons --
> > > Obvious, I have no figures, but I bet that if this country
> > had good,
> > > affordable, day care for all children the desire for
> > abortions would
> > > drop like a rock.
> > >
> > > What someone really means is shown by what that person does
> > > -- just as words in legal rules mean the set of facts where
> > judges are
> > > willing to see them met.
> > >
> > > As for the poster who claimed that a large percentage of
> > the poor are
> > > merely lazy -- that is not empirically supported. I will
> > assume the
> > > poster was writing too quickly and did not mean -- after all that
> > > happened to me earlier.
> > >
> > > Now, I reallydo have to go back to teaching work.
> > >
> > > Malla Pollack
> > > Professor, American Justice School of Law mpollack at ajsl.us
> > > 270-744-3300 x 28 articles http://works.bepress.com/malla_pollack/
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Volokh, Eugene
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:26 PM
> > > To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > >
> > > The question isn't whether Malla is right or wrong.
> > > The question is whether it's fair to infer that people
> who disagree
> > > with one on such economic questions must therefore not
> "care about
> > > actual people."
> > >
> > > Say that I, when teaching the school aid classes in my Religion
> > > Clauses class, I "[kept] pointing out to my students ...
> > that persons
> > > arguing for [a separationist view of the Establishment
> > Clause] do not
> > > seem to care about actual children," based on my firm belief that
> > > school choice would be much better for children than the
> > public school
> > > monopoly.
> > > Fair? Sound pedagogy? Or should I perhaps consider the
> > possibility
> > > that people who disagree with me on the subject do so out
> of a good
> > > faith judgment that their view is better for actual
> > children, even if
> > > I think their judgment is mistaken?
> > >
> > > Eugene
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Frank Cross [mailto:crossf at mail.utexas.edu]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:47 PM
> > > > To: Malla Pollack; Volokh, Eugene; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Plainly, charity cannot take care of all the needs of
> the poor.
> > > > However, it is helpful. And it is significant that
> > > religious people
> > > > contribute far more voluntary charity to help the poor
> > than do the
> > > > non-religious.
> > > >
> > > > And empirical studies also support the claim that positive
> > > rights do
> > > > not work to help the poor. Which is the best reason to
> > oppose them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 07:34 PM 4/18/2007, Malla Pollack wrote:
> > > > >I know of no empirical studies which even come close to
> > > > asserting that the
> > > > >poor in the US are being well taken care of by private
> > > > charity. Empircal
> > > > >studies do, however, support the claim that the "trickle
> > > > down" theory of
> > > > >economics does not work.
> > > > >
> > > > >Malla Pollack
> > > > >Professor, American Justice School of Law mpollack at ajsl.us
> > > > >270-744-3300 x 28 articles
> > http://works.bepress.com/malla_pollack/
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > >[mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Volokh, Eugene
> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:01 PM
> > > > >To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > >Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > >
> > > > > Really? Anyone who cares about actual people must
> > > > as a logical
> > > > >matter push for positive rights? It's not possible that
> > > some caring
> > > > >people might take the view that government funding for such
> > > > matters is
> > > > >counterproductive, or less effective than private funding?
> > > It's not
> > > > >possible that they might think that whatever the
> merits of such
> > > > >programs, the Constitution does not support a "'minimum
> > > > support' theory
> > > > >of positive rights"?
> > > > >
> > > > > It's one thing to argue in favor of positive
> > > > rights; it's quite
> > > > >another, it seems to me, to suggest that one's opponents
> > > > must therefore
> > > > >simply not "care about actual people."
> > > > >
> > > > > Eugene
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Earl Maltz
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:56 PM
> > > > > > To: Malla Pollack; medina at loyno.edu;
> 'Gilbert,Lauren'; 'Rick
> > > > > > Duncan'; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an outright slander on those deeply-religious
> > people who
> > > > > > often devote substantial amounts of time on the
> > ground working
> > > > > > to improve the lives of poor people rather than
> sitting in an
> > > > > > ivory tower pontificating about the need for some abstract
> > > > > > constitutional theory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 01:35 PM 4/18/2007 -0500, Malla Pollack wrote:
> > > > > > >What I keep pointing out to my students in Con Law II is
> > > > > > that persons
> > > > > > >arguing for a state interest in "life per se" eg against
> > > > > > assisted suicide,
> > > > > > >abortion, etc, do not seem to care about actual
> people. If
> > > > > > they did, they
> > > > > > >would push for a "minimum support" theory of positive
> > > > > > rights. Maybe I
> > > > > > >am in the super minority, but I think that many
> > > > abortions would not
> > > > > > >requested if the the government acually provided affordable
> > > > > > (i) child
> > > > > > >day care, (ii) health care, and (iii) job training & jobs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I simply do not understand how caring for "life" can mean
> > > > > > anything in
> > > > > > >the absence of caring for people.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Malla Pollack
> > > > > > >Professor, American Justice School of Law mpollack at ajsl.us
> > > > > > 270-744-3300
> > > > > > >x 28 articles http://works.bepress.com/malla_pollack/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > >[mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf
> > Of medina
> > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:23 PM
> > > > > > >To: Gilbert,Lauren; Rick Duncan; CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > >Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Lauren, I think it's striking how absent women are in
> > > > > > Justice Kennedy's
> > > > > > >opinion. The opinion discusses the procedure extensively,
> > > > > > physicians
> > > > > > >and medical judgment but women appear as bystanders to the
> > > > > > issue and to
> > > > > > >"the abortion right."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >M. Isabel Medina
> > > > > > >Ferris Family Professor of Law Loyola University
> New Orleans
> > > > > > >College of Law
> > > > > > >7214 St. Charles Ave.
> > > > > > >New Orleans, LA 70118
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message Follows -----
> > > > > > >From: "Gilbert, Lauren" <lgilbert at stu.edu>
> > > > > > >To: "Rick Duncan" <nebraskalawprof at yahoo.com>,
> > > > > > ><CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu>
> > > > > > >Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:08:15 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How, may I ask, is this "a very good thing" for
> women who
> > > > > > are denied
> > > > > > > > the use of a medical procedure that many doctors
> > > say is often
> > > > > > > > necessary to save their lives?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lauren Gilbert
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Associate Professor of Law
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > St. Thomas University School of Law
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > > > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > > > Rick Duncan
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:28 PM
> > > > > > > > To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmmm. Is this a criticism of the majority opinion? Or is
> > > > > > the point
> > > > > > > > that the abortion doctor does not "kill the fetus" or
> > > > > > that the fetus
> > > > > > > > is not a "living organism within the womb."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John Noonan used to write that Roe v. Wade was
> based upon
> > > > > > a "mask"
> > > > > > > > imposed by the law on the reality of abortion and the
> > > > reality of
> > > > > > > > human life in the womb.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I haven't read Justice Kennedy's opinion yet, but it
> > > > > > sounds like he
> > > > > > > > took the mask off abortion and focused on the
> > reality of the
> > > > > > > > abortion liberty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And that is a very good thing for the Constitution, for
> > > > > > our country,
> > > > > > > > and for both men and women.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rick Duncan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Darren Hutchinson <dhutchinson at wcl.american.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the vein of law and literature, has
> anyone seen an
> > > > > > abortion
> > > > > > > > ruling that so graphically describes the procedures? Or
> > > > > > which finds
> > > > > > > > that the doctor "kills the fetus"? Or that a fetus
> > > > is a "living
> > > > > > > > organism within the womb"? Or which declares that
> > > > "respect for
> > > > > > > > human life finds an ultimate expression in the bond
> > > > of love the
> > > > > > > > mother has for her child"? The last phrase sounds a
> > > > little like
> > > > > > > > Justice Bradley in Bradwell v. Illinois. I added
> > > the italics.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Darren Lenard Hutchinson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Professor of Law
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > American University, Washington College of Law
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 4801 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Washington, D.C. 20016
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phone: (202) 274-4048
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Fax: (202) 730-4587
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Email: dhutchinson at wcl.american.edu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Webpage: http://wcl.american.edu/faculty/hutchinson/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > > > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On
> > > Behalf Of Darren
> > > > > > > > Hutchinson
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:16 AM
> > > > > > > > To: 'Frank Cross'; 'Mark Tushnet'; 'ConLaw Prof'
> > > > > > > > Subject: Partial Birth Act Upheld
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyone have a copy of the opinion yet? I have
> > > > > > searched without
> > > > > > > > success.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/04/18/n
> > > > > > ational/w0
> > > > > > >7
> > > > > > > > 5329D38.DTL&type=politics
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> > > > > > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get
> > > > > > password, see
> > > > > > > >
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please note that messages sent to this large list
> > > > cannot be
> > > > > > > > viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the
> > list and read
> > > > > > > > messages that are posted; people can read the Web
> > > > > > archives; and list
> > > > > > > > members can (rightly or
> > > > > > > > wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rick Duncan
> > > > > > > > Welpton Professor of Law
> > > > > > > > University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE
> > 68583-0902
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "It's a funny thing about us human beings: not
> many of us
> > > > > > > > doubt God's existence and then start sinning.
> > Most of us sin
> > > > > > > > and then start doubting His existence." --J.
> > > > > > > > Budziszewski (The Revenge of Conscience)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Once again the ancient maxim is vindicated, that the
> > > > > > > > perversion of the best is the worst." -- Id.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> > > > > > > > Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/n>
> > > > > > ew_cars.html;_
> > > > > > > >
> ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbG
> > > > > > > > > sDbmV3LWNhcnM-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> > > > > > > > subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get
> password ,
> > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > >
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please note that messages sent to this large list
> > cannot be
> > > > > > > > viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the
> list and
> > > > > > > > read messages that are posted; people can read the Web
> > > > > > > > archives; and list members can (rightly or
> > wrongly) forward
> > > > > > > > the messages to others.
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> > > > > > >subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get
> password, see
> > > > > > >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot
> > > > be viewed as
> > > > > > >private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> > > > messages that are
> > > > > > >posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members
> > > > > > can (rightly or
> > > > > > >wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--
> > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > > > >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release
> > > > > > Date: 4/18/2007
> > > > > > >7:39 AM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> > > > > > >subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get
> password, see
> > > > > > >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > > > >
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> read messages
> > > > > > that are
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> > > > > > can (rightly or
> > > > > > >wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> > subscribe,
> > > > > > unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > > > > > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be
> > > > > > viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the
> list and read
> > > > > > messages that are posted; people can read the Web
> > archives; and
> > > > > > list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the
> messages to
> > > > > > others.
> > > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> subscribe,
> > > > >unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > > > >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > >
> > > > >Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot
> > > be viewed as
> > > > >private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> > > messages that are
> > > > >posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members
> > > > can (rightly or
> > > > >wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > > >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release
> > > > Date: 4/18/2007
> > > > >7:39 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> subscribe,
> > > > >unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > > > >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > > > >
> > > > >Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot
> > be viewed
> > > > >as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> > > messages that
> > > > >are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list
> > members can
> > > > >(rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To subscribe,
> > > unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> > >
> > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be
> > viewed as
> > > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> > messages that are
> > > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> > > (rightly or
> > > wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release
> > > Date: 4/18/2007
> > > 7:39 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> >
> > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be
> viewed as
> > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> messages that are
> > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> > (rightly or
> > wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release
> > Date: 4/19/2007
> > 5:32 AM
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
>
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be
> viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read
> messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives;
> and list members can (rightly or
> wrongly) forward the messages to others.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release
> Date: 4/19/2007
> 5:32 AM
>
>
>
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