"325 ,000" ?
Volokh, Eugene
VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu
Thu Apr 12 14:49:23 PDT 2007
I should just mention that these are very interesting questions, and
that are much worth discussing. Also, I expressly said that Prof.
Holden's original message *did* raise a constitutional law question as
well as a descriptive question that is quite relevant to constitutional
law. (See
http://lists.ucla.edu/pipermail/conlawprof/2007-April/029678.html for my
post on the subject.)
Eugene
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From: matthewhpolsci at aol.com [mailto:matthewhpolsci at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 2:46 PM
To: crossf at mail.utexas.edu; Volokh, Eugene;
conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
Cc: hochschild at gov.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: "325 ,000" ?
My intent had been to say no more about this topic, I do
apologize, especially as the moderator has already said that my message
did not raise "constitutional" questions. But all the recalculations,
legitimate in the interest of factual accuracy, seem to suggest that the
author of the Yale LJ cannot be more than 90% wrong on the number. If
he is 90% wrong on the number, that means that the legitimate number is
32,500.
Given my view of government, already stated, I take comfort that
the list has gone from 16 to 32, 500 in six years.
Is anyone prepared to say that I have misread the Yale LJ author
to say (a) if you are on the list you have a very, very hard time
finding out why and that (b) you are likely to have a very hard time
getting off?
I only got interested in this because I do believe (no matter
what lawyers say) that the reality of constitutional restraint is in how
much or how little of what administrators do or abstain from doing. I
take it the lawyers say this is simply wrong.
Matthew Holden, Jr.
Henry L. and Grace M. Doherty Professor Emeritus of Politics,
University of Virginia
DIRECT MAILING ADDRESS
P. O. Box 12588
LeFleur Station
Jackson, MS 39236-2588
Phone: 601-952-0596
-----Original Message-----
From: crossf at mail.utexas.edu
To: VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu; conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: "325 ,000" ?
The October 8, 2006 Sixty Minutes television report by Steve
Kroft stated that it had obtained the list and stated
The first surprise was the sheer size of it. In paper form it is
more than 540 pages long. Before 9/11, the government's list of
suspected terrorists banned from air travel totaled just 16 names; today
there are 44,000. And that doesn't include people the government thinks
should be pulled aside for additional security screening. There are
another 75,000 people on that list.
At 03:05 PM 4/12/2007, Volokh, Eugene wrote:
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77D3D.DCB2B722"
It seems that Judge Boggs' and my posts show that
the YLJ student Note's 325,000 number is unfounded -- the two sources it
cites for that number do not support the assertion that there are
325,000 names on the No-Fly list. That surely doesn't prove the number
is wrong, only that the sources given in the article do not support it.
As I mentioned in a more recent post, there is a
recent Washington Post article that gives a 30,000 estimate. Whether
that's right or wrong, I can't say, but at least it has some source
behind it, as opposed to the unfounded 325,000 estimate.
I also don't know how many of the 30,000 (if 30,000
it is) are U.S. citizens or even U.S. residents, though I'd love to hear
it if others have better data.
Eugene
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Subject: Re: "325 ,000" ?
I just responded to Mark Tushnet saying all I
know is in the Yale LJ article and asking if the right number is 32,
325, 3250, 32,500 or 325,000? You will note that my post, relying to
that extent on the article, uses the qualifier "arguably."
I am glad to see someone pursue the relevant
fact question, though I decided to leave the whole thing alone as most
people seemed interested in another question altogether.
If you have a means of showing that the Yale LJ
number is wrong and that there is a means of producing a more accurate
number, I will be grateful.
Matthew Holden, Jr.
Henry L. and Grace M. Doherty Professor Emeritus
of Politics, University of Virginia
DIRECT MAILING ADDRESS
P. O. Box 12588
LeFleur Station
Jackson, MS 39236-2588
Phone: 601-952-0596
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny_J_Boggs at ca6.uscourts.gov
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To: matthewhpolsci at aol.com
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Cc: hochschild at gov.harvard.edu
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Sent: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 1:43 PM
Subject: "325 ,000" ?
I tried to follow the links from the YLJ
article(115 YLJ at 2153 n.15) (WaPo headline is only quoted use of
"325,000") but the only web URL led me to an ACLU site that stated the
following
Frequently Asked Questions About the "No Fly
List" (10/26/2005)
How many names are on the No Fly List and
Selectee List?
The exact number constantly fluctuates and is
also a secret. However, the TSA says that tens of thousands of names are
on these lists.
Danny J. Boggs
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