terrorist watch list
Lynne Henderson
hendersl at ix.netcom.com
Sun Apr 8 17:45:52 PDT 2007
I agree with Eugene that if a name from a peace demonstration makes it
on a no-fly list, there's a problemn. Clearly the TSA clerks and
airline clerks do not hasve discretion.
I'd like to know, too, how the list is determinedbut I fear the answer
is "classified". There have been numerous articles on people being
bounced from flights and/or detained, including members of Congress,
and there is a federal lawsuit by some peace activists in Califr--alas
it is buried somewhere in my e-mail. My husband gets pulled aside and
searched, though he has only been to some very large rallies and is
hardly a rabble-rouser, while I sail through (thus far).
My *research assistant,* Patrick Driscoll, has been pulled aside many
many times--before he even met me :-) (and he is a nice, smart, LDS kid
who went to BYU and doesn't demonstrate!) All I could figure was that
he was on some IRA list, but now that the British have held that the
IRA is no longer a terrorist organization, maybe he'll be able to fly
unmolested. Of course that remains to be seen . . .from what I have
read it is virtually impossible to get one's name off the list in an
prompt manner.
Cheers
Lynne
On Apr 8, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Volokh, Eugene wrote:
> I'm a little puzzled by this. I agree that what FBI investigative
> agents think is the policy about whom to investigate may be what the
> policy is as administered. By airport clerks aren't deciding who gets
> put on the watch lists, I take it. That they believe someone gets put
> on the watch list because he went to a peace rally doesn't, it seems to
> me, make that the policy as administered, no?
>
> Eugene
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: matthewhpolsci at aol.com [mailto:matthewhpolsci at aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 1:59 PM
> To: Volokh, Eugene; conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: Re: terrorist watch list
>
>
> Eugene Volokh:
>
> What clerks think is the policy is what the policy is as
> administered, no matter what is declared or written in the manual.
>
> Thus, your query allows me to ask specifically if anyone on this
> list is knowledgeable about (a) Federal administrative practice in
> general or (b) TSA practice specifically, and thus able to answer your
> question. I would like to know the answer as well. If not, can anyone
> suggest the route to get good, reliable answers quickly?
>
>
> Matthew Holden, Jr.
> Henry L. and Grace M. Doherty Professor Emeritus of Politics,
> University of Virginia
>
> DIRECT MAILING ADDRESS
> P. O. Box 12588
> LeFleur Station
> Jackson, MS 39236-2588
>
> Phone: 601-952-0596
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VOLOKH at law.ucla.edu
> To: conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 3:38 PM
> Subject: RE: terrorist watch list
>
>
> Surely putting someone on a terrorist watch list simply
> because
> he's been in a peace march is outrageous. So would a clerk's
> being
> instructed to say so, if it weren't true -- deliberately
> spreading such
> rumors would itself tend to deter people's speech.
>
> Still, I wonder whether this is indeed a real government
> policy,
> or just a myth that the clerk picked up somewhere and was
> passing along
> without much support. Again, if it is really the policy, it's
> appalling
> -- but I just wonder whether it is.
>
> Eugene
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> <javascript:parent.ComposeTo("conlawprof-bounces%40lists.ucla.edu",
> "");>
> > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> <javascript:parent.ComposeTo("conlawprof-bounces%40lists.ucla.edu",
> "");> ] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Segal
> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:13 AM
> > To: conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> <javascript:parent.ComposeTo("conlawprof%40lists.ucla.edu", "");>
> > Cc: wmurphy37 at comcast.net
> <javascript:parent.ComposeTo("wmurphy37%40comcast.net", "");>
> > Subject: terrorist watch list
> >
> >
> > I pass this story along, with permission, from Walter Murphy.
> >
> >
> > Don't know if this missive is list-worthy or not. Even tho'
> > I'm the person who was immediately affected,the problem does
> > pertain to basic constitutional issues with which all of us,
> > of whatever political persuasion, are concerned in our
> > teaching and scholarship. What follows are excerpts for a
> > narrative I prepared for Sen Jeff Bingaman (D, NM). If you
> > think the larger issues it raises are appropriate for the
> > list, please so distribute. If not, then not. As usual I
> > rely on your judgment.
> >
> >
> > On 1 March 07, I was scheduled to fly on American Airlines to
> > Newark, NJ, to attend an academic conference at Princeton
> > University, designed to focus on my latest scholarly book,
> > Constitutional Democracy, published by Johns Hopkins
> > University Press this past Thanksgiving.
> >
> >
> > When I tried to use the curb-side check in at the Sunport, I
> > was denied a boarding pass because I was on the Terrorist
> > Watch list. I was instructed to go inside and talk to a
> > clerk. At this point, I should note that I am not only the
> > McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence
> > (emeritus) but also a retired Marine colonel. I fought in
> > the Korean War as a young lieutenant, was wounded, and
> > decorated for heroism. I remained a professional soldier for
> > more than five years and then accepted a commission as a
> > reserve office, serving for an additional 19 years.
> >
> > I presented my credentials from the Marine Corps to a very
> > polite clerk for American Airlines. One of the two people to
> > whom I talked asked a question and offered a frightening
> > comment: Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot
> > of people from flying because of that. I explained that I
> > had not so marched but had, in September, 2006, given a
> > lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the Web, highly
> > critical of George Bush for his many violations of the
> > Constitution. That'll do it, the man said.
> >
> >
> > After carefully examining my credentials, the clerk asked if
> > he could take them to TSA officials. I agreed. He returned
> > about ten minutes later and said I could have a boarding
> > pass, but added: AI must warn you, they're going to ransack
> > your luggage. On my return flight, I had no problem with
> > obtaining a boarding pass, but my luggage was lost. Airlines
> > do lose a lot of luggage and this loss could have been a mere
> > coincidence. In light of previous events, however, I'm a tad
> > skeptical.
> >
> > I confess to having been furious that any American citizen
> > would be singled out for governmental harassment because he
> > or she criticized any elected official, Democrat or
> > Republican. That harassment is, in and of itself, a flagrant
> > violation not only of the First Amendment but also of our
> > entire scheme of constitutional government. This effort to
> > punish a critic states my lecture's argument far more
> > eloquently and forcefully than I ever could. Further, that
> > an administration headed by two men who had had other
> > priorities than to risk their own lives when their turn to
> > fight for their country came up, should brand as a threat to
> > the United States a person who did not run away but stood up
> > and fought for his country and was wounded in battle, goes
> > beyond the outrageous. Although less lethal, it is of the
> > same evil ilk as punishing Ambassador Joseph Wilson for
> > criticizing Bush's false claims by outing his wife, Valerie
> > Plaime, thereby putting at risk her life as well as the lives
> > of many people with whom she had had contact as an agent of
> > the CIA. ...
> >
> > I have a personal stake here, but so do all Americans who
> > take their political system seriously. Thus I hope you and
> > your colleagues will take some positive action to bring the
> > Administration's conduct to the attention of a far larger,
> > and more influential, audience than I could hope to reach. I
> > am ready to help in any such endeavor. ...
> >
> > So there we are, as the Irish would say. I wonder what would
> > have happened had I been a citizen of Arab descent.
> >
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > W
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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