Iraqi and American democracy

[Scarberry, Mark]

A small objection to Bobby's post:

Bobby refers to "Doug's claim that we came close to a white collar riot in
Dade County." But Doug did not say that we came close to having a riot. He
said there was a riot, and that the riot was the closest we came to having
"riots in the streets." Of course it was not a riot in the streets because
it happened indoors. But Doug did call it a riot, or at least a "white
collar riot." 

Perhaps a white collar riot is not a real riot, or at least not the kind I
recall from 1965, when riots in Los Angeles left more than 30 people dead.
Or the kind that occurred after the officers who beat Rodney King were
acquitted of state criminal charges, as described by the BBC:

"Fifty-five people were killed in several days of rioting, looting and
retaliatory attacks against whites and Asians. About 2,000 people were
injured, and another 12,000 arrested."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2119943.stm.

Or the many riots that targeted African Americans, including the 1943 riots
in Detroit, as described by a Yale web page:

"The riot in Detroit, Michigan in 1943 flared from the increased racial
friction over the sharp rise in the Negro population, which led to
competition with whites on the job and housing markets. On June 20, rioting
broke out on Belle Isle, a recreational area used by both races but
predominately by Negroes. Fist fights escalated into a major conflict. The
first wave of looting and bloodshed began in the Black ghetto "Paradise
Valley" and later spread to other sections of the city. White mobs attacked
Blacks in the downtown area, and traveled into Black neighborhoods by car,
where they were met by sniping. By the time federal troops arrived to halt
the riot, 25 Blacks and nine whites were killed and property damaged
exceeded $2 million."
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1979/2/79.02.04.x.html (citing
Report of the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders (New York,
1968), p. 244).

I assume Doug was using the term figuratively, but it is perhaps too
powerful a figure given our not too distant history.



As to the event itself in Florida in 2000:

I remember seeing video of clearly agitated persons making noise and perhaps
pounding on a door, behind which the electoral staff had moved to do their
work privately. Having seen one member of that staff rejoice that they had
perhaps discovered enough hanging chads to give the election to Vice
President Gore, I would also have been concerned about them moving their
work out of the public eye. I do not recall any claims that any property was
damaged or that any person was injured. Nor, as far as I can recall, was
anyone arrested or charged with violating any law. I would be interested in
any evidence Doug or others may have for the proposition that it was a riot
or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

Mark S. Scarberry
Pepperdine Univ. School of Law

-----Original Message-----
From: RJLipkin at aol.com
To: CONLAWPROF at lists.ucla.edu
Sent: 6/12/2005 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Iraqi and American democracy

In a message dated 6/12/2005 2:06:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nelsonlund at erols.com writes:

Douglas Laycock wrote: 

. . . . As to riots in the streets, the closest we have come was the
white collar riot of Republican Congressional staffers seeking to stop
the counting of votes in Dade County. . . .


Wrong. There was no "riot" and no effort to "stop the counting of
votes."


        Without wishing to resurrect the 2000 Election controversy, a
cursory search concerning this issue reveals several sources contending
that unruly and violent republican activists besieged the government
office where the recount was being conducted. Is there some new,
generally agreed upon authority providing evidence against Doug's claim
that we came close to a white collar riot in Dade County in the
aftermath of the 2000 Election? Or, instead, is this a semantic claim
concerning what literally counts as a '"riot'" without ultimately
denying that violent Republican activists were shipped in to disrupt the
recount?
 
Bobby
 
Robert Justin Lipkin
Professor of Law
Widener University School of Law
Delaware
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