AW: Iraq Constitution

Tue Aug 30 16:54:11 PDT 2005

This is just to amend a small inaccuracy in my post. Having checked a reference
book, I found that Adenauer had indeed been arrested by the Gestapo several
times during the Nazi era, but each time he only spent a few weeks or months in
prison. So I was wrong to say that he was in prison during "much of the Nazi
era," but right on the more general point that he was an anti-Nazi while Hitler
was in power and was never a member of the Nazi Party.

Ilya Soin

Quoting Douglas Laycock <DLaycock at law.utexas.edu>:

>  The responses from Ilya and Calvin show the danger of relying on aging
> memory.  Sorry to have offered an erroneous example.
>
>
> Douglas Laycock
> University of Texas Law School
> 727 E. Dean Keeton St.
> Austin, TX  78705
>    512-232-1341 (phone)
>    512-471-6988 (fax)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isomin at fas.harvard.edu [mailto:isomin at fas.harvard.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:34 PM
> To: Douglas Laycock
> Cc: Elizabeth Dale; Bob Sheridan; Sanford Levinson;
> conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> Subject: RE: AW: Iraq Constitution
>
> Actually, Adenauer spent much of the Nazi period in prison and was never
> a member of the party. He did have a few aides who were former Nazis,
> but they were not top level officials and and had not directly
> participated in atrocities.
>
> Ilya Somin
>
> Quoting Douglas Laycock <DLaycock at law.utexas.edu>:
>
> > My memory is that Adenauer's record as not entirely free of Nazi
> > participation.  He was Chancellor of West Germany for years and our
> > staunch ally.
> >
> >
> > Douglas Laycock
> > University of Texas Law School
> > 727 E. Dean Keeton St.
> > Austin, TX  78705
> >    512-232-1341 (phone)
> >    512-471-6988 (fax)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Dale
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:52 PM
> > To: isomin at fas.harvard.edu; 'Bob Sheridan'
> > Cc: Sanford Levinson; conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> > Subject: RE: AW: Iraq Constitution
> >
> > Well, Nazis were not completely excluded from all aspects of public
> > life in post war Germany. There's an article about some places they
> > turned up (and the US role in keeping them around) in Foreign Affairs
> (2004).
> > Interestingly, the article explores the issue specifically from the
> > pespective of the question "What should we do in Iraq?" and concludes:
> > not what we did in Germany, precisely because we helped empower some
> > former Nazis.
> >
> > The link is here:
> > http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20040701fareviewessay83412/timothy-nafta
> > li
> > /ber
> > lin-to-baghdad-the-pitfalls-of-hiring-enemy-intelligence.html
> >
> >
> > Elizabeth Dale
> >
> > Associate Professor, US Legal History, Department of History,
> > Affiliate Professor of Legal History, Levin College of Law
> >
> > University of Florida
> > PO Box 17320
> > Gainesville, Florida 32611
> >
> > edale at history.ufl.edu
> > http://plaza.ufl.edu/edale
> > 352-393-0271 ex 262
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu
> > [mailto:conlawprof-bounces at lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of
> > isomin at fas.harvard.edu
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:26 PM
> > To: Bob Sheridan
> > Cc: SLevinson at law.utexas.edu; conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> > Subject: Re: AW: Iraq Constitution
> >
> > Well, yes, there are still neo-Nazis in Germany, but there are ideas
> > hardly still have anything remotely approaching the same level of
> > support as before.
> > And I would suggest that the decline in support is not entirely
> > unrelated to the completeness of their defeat, and their exclusion
> > from power and public life after WWII. And, yes, also to the
> > punishment of their surviving leaders.
> >
> > Ilya Somin
> >
> > Quoting Bob Sheridan <bobsheridan at earthlink.net>:
> >
> > > Somehow, I was hoping not to see any Conlawprofs suggesting the need
>
> > > to execute the old regime, whether en masse or by cherry-picking the
>
> > > most deserving.  Seems to me we've been there, done that, and we
> > > still
> >
> > > have neo-Nazis. If killing people killed ideas, perhaps we wouldn't
> > > have so many bad ideas.  I was looking for a better idea. Didn't
> > > some of the leading Nazis survive for years behind bars?  Which
> > > produced the better effect, the hangings or the imprisonments, I
> wonder.
> > >
> > > The ex post facto aspect isn't very  impressive, either.  As I
> > > recall,
> >
> > > when Justice Robert Jackson took time off his high court duties to
> > > lead the prosecution at Nuremburg at the request of HST, some of his
>
> > > more critical colleagues thought it an exercise in expostfacto.
> > >
> > > Of course, if this is a big TRADITION, I can clearly see it.
> > >
> > > rs
> > >
> > > isomin at fas.harvard.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > >Of course, in case it was not clear, I did not advocate "mass
> > > >executions." I advocated "executing top Confederate leaders guilty
> > > >of
> >
> > > >treason." Similar to
> > > the
> > > >way we executed a number of top Nazi and Japanese leaders after
> > > >WWII,
> >
> > > >a set
> > > of
> > > >events which I think facilitated rather than prevented the
> > > >establishment of democratic constitutions in those countries.
> > > >
> > > >Ilya Somin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> >
> > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
> > private.  Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
> > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> > (rightly or
> > wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
> >
> > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
> > private.  Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
> > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> > (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Conlawprof at lists.ucla.edu
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof
>
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
> private.  Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted;
> people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly)
> forward the messages to others.
>