Theft of free papers

Leslie Goldstein lesl at UDEL.EDU
Sat Oct 27 11:40:12 PDT 2001


I cannot see how the intent of the stealer can turn soemthing into
theft.  One who steals a valuable painting to have on her wall vs. to
sell is stealing either way.

"Volokh, Eugene" wrote:

>
>
>         Is that really right?  As I mentioned in my earlier post,
> imagine that someone took thousands of free papers -- either student
> papers or, say, the L.A. Weekly, which is a nifty 150-200 tabloid
> pages -- and sold them to a recycling center.  Seems to me that would
> be pretty clearly theft; the fact that the papers were available for
> everyone to take one doesn't seem that they were available for
> everyone to take 1000.  Am I mistaken?  If I am, then people could
> make some money.  And if I'm correct, what's the difference between
> taking 1000 to sell to a recycling center and taking 1000 to throw in
> the trash?
>
>         Eugene
>
> Lynne Henderson writes:
>
>      Eugene, it has to be property of another to be theft.  Free
>      newspapers can
>      be taken by anyone, there is no claim of ownership, further how
>      do you
>      prove intent permanently to deprive the owner of her property?
>      Basic theft
>      law--Cal. Pen. Code sec. 484.   Now whether it violates some
>      University
>      student ethics code is another matter.
>      Best
>      Lynne
>
>      At 03:17 PM 10/26/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>      >         Any thoughts on this, especially in the broader context
>      that such
>      > thefts at
>      >universities throughout the country apparently virtually never
>      lead to
>      >conviction?  Would failure to investigate this with the same
>      effort that
>      >would be addressed to theft of other property be a 1st Am
>      violation?
>      >
>      >         One common argument is that this isn't theft because
>      the papers
>      > are free,
>      >but I don't think that can be right:  I take it that few would
>      doubt that it
>      >would be theft for someone to take all those papers and then
>      sell them to a
>      >recycling center (or am I mistaken?); is there any real
>      difference here?
>      >
>      >         Eugene
>      >
>      >http://www.dailycal.com/article.asp?id=6816
>      >
>      >Daily Cals Stolen, Replaced With Protester Fliers
>      >
>      >Fliers Call for Daily Cal Boycott
>      >
>      >By CYRUS FARIVAR
>      >
>      >Daily Cal Staff Writer
>      >
>      >Thursday, October 25, 2001
>      >
>      >Approximately 1,000 copies of The Daily Californian were stolen
>      from
>      >newspaper racks on Sproul Plaza Wednesday, apparently in
>      response to an
>      >advertisement titled "End States Who Sponsor Terrorism," paid
>      for by the Ayn
>      >Rand Institute.
>      >
>      >In place of the newspapers were fliers that called for a boycott
>      of the
>      >Daily Cal and alleged the Oct. 23 ad is "irrational and
>      inflammatory," and
>      >said that it perpetuated hostility against the Iranian
>      community.
>      >
>      >The ad featured an essay written by Ayn Rand Institute founder
>      Leonard
>      >Peikoff, who called for the elimination of the "terrorist
>      sanctuaries" in
>      >Iran.
>      >
>      >"What Germany was to Nazism in the 1940s, Iran is to terrorism
>      today,"
>      >stated the ad. "Whatever else it does, therefore, the U.S. can
>      put an end to
>      >the Jihad-mongers only by taking out Iran.
>      >
>      >"Eliminating Iran's terrorist sanctuaries and military
>      capability is not
>      >enough. We must do the equivalent of de-Nazifying the country,
>      by expelling
>      >every branch of its government."
>      >
>      >UC police are currently investigating the case but have no
>      suspects, said UC
>      >police Capt. Bill Cooper.
>      >
>      >Past thefts of the Daily Cal have never resulted in any arrests
>      or
>      >prosecutions, Cooper said.
>      >
>      >The flier found in the distribution boxes of the Daily Cal was
>      unsigned, and
>      >no one has claimed responsibility for the theft of the papers.
>      >
>      >The flier stated that the ad was "the last straw" in
>      perpetuating hate and
>      >violence, citing last February's printing of an ad authored by
>      David
>      >Horowitz and last month's political cartoon by Darrin Bell as
>      other
>      >examples.
>      >
>      >Copies of the independent student newspaper were also stolen
>      after the paper
>      >ran an editorial in 1996 supporting Proposition 209, which
>      banned the use of
>      >affirmative action in state programs.
>      >
>      >"We must take a stand against the continuation of a systematic
>      policy of
>      >eliciting and reinforcing hatred and racism from our student
>      newspaper," the
>      >flier stated. "Until the Daily Cal shifts policy we will not
>      allow business
>      >to continue as usual. As a result, we have taken copies of
>      today's issue of
>      >the newspaper." . . .
>      >
>      >The flier's authors, who anticipated such criticism, disagree
>      that this is a
>      >free speech issue, calling the ad hate speech.
>      >
>      >"We do not believe that hate speech, which advocates the killing
>      of entire
>      >nations and the innocent people who live in them, is protected,"
>      the flier
>      >states. "The Peikoff ad clearly crosses the line between
>      reasoned debate and
>      >inflammatory hate mongering." . . .
>
>      --=====================_26038881==_.ALT
>      Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
>      <html>
>      <font size=3>Eugene, it has to be property of another to be
>      theft.&nbsp;
>      Free newspapers can be taken by anyone, there is no claim of
>      ownership,
>      further  how do you prove intent permanently to deprive the owner
>      of her
>      property? Basic theft law--Cal. Pen. Code sec. 484.&nbsp;&nbsp;
>      Now
>      whether it violates some University student ethics code is
>      another
>      matter.<br>
>      Best<br>
>      Lynne<br><br>
>      At 03:17 PM 10/26/2001 -0400, you wrote:<br>
>      <blockquote type=cite class=cite
>      cite>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
>      Any thoughts on this, especially in the broader context that such
>      thefts
>      at<br>
>      universities throughout the country apparently virtually never
>      lead
>      to<br>
>      conviction?&nbsp; Would failure to investigate this with the same
>      effort
>      that<br>
>      would be addressed to theft of other property be a 1st Am
>      violation?<br><br>
>      &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; One common argument is
>      that
>      this isn't theft because the papers are free,<br>
>      but I don't think that can be right:&nbsp; I take it that few
>      would doubt
>      that it<br>
>      would be theft for someone to take all those papers and then sell
>      them to
>      a<br>
>      recycling center (or am I mistaken?); is there any real
>      difference
>      here?<br><br>
>      &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Eugene<br><br>
>      <a href="http://www.dailycal.com/article.asp?id=6816"
>      eudora="autourl">http://www.dailycal.com/article.asp?id=6816</a><br><br>
>
>      Daily Cals Stolen, Replaced With Protester Fliers<br><br>
>      Fliers Call for Daily Cal Boycott<br><br>
>      By CYRUS FARIVAR<br><br>
>      Daily Cal Staff Writer<br><br>
>      Thursday, October 25, 2001<br><br>
>      Approximately 1,000 copies of The Daily Californian were stolen
>      from<br>
>      newspaper racks on Sproul Plaza Wednesday, apparently in response
>      to
>      an<br>
>      advertisement titled &quot;End States Who Sponsor
>      Terrorism,&quot; paid
>      for by the Ayn<br>
>      Rand Institute.<br><br>
>      In place of the newspapers were fliers that called for a boycott
>      of
>      the<br>
>      Daily Cal and alleged the Oct. 23 ad is &quot;irrational and
>      inflammatory,&quot; and<br>
>      said that it perpetuated hostility against the Iranian
>      community.<br><br>
>      The ad featured an essay written by Ayn Rand Institute founder
>      Leonard<br>
>      Peikoff, who called for the elimination of the &quot;terrorist
>      sanctuaries&quot; in<br>
>      Iran.<br><br>
>      &quot;What Germany was to Nazism in the 1940s, Iran is to
>      terrorism
>      today,&quot;<br>
>      stated the ad. &quot;Whatever else it does, therefore, the U.S.
>      can put
>      an end to<br>
>      the Jihad-mongers only by taking out Iran.<br><br>
>      &quot;Eliminating Iran's terrorist sanctuaries and military
>      capability is
>      not<br>
>      enough. We must do the equivalent of de-Nazifying the country, by
>
>      expelling<br>
>      every branch of its government.&quot;<br><br>
>      UC police are currently investigating the case but have no
>      suspects, said
>      UC<br>
>      police Capt. Bill Cooper.<br><br>
>      Past thefts of the Daily Cal have never resulted in any arrests
>      or<br>
>      prosecutions, Cooper said.<br><br>
>      The flier found in the distribution boxes of the Daily Cal was
>      unsigned,
>      and<br>
>      no one has claimed responsibility for the theft of the
>      papers.<br><br>
>      The flier stated that the ad was &quot;the last straw&quot; in
>      perpetuating hate and<br>
>      violence, citing last February's printing of an ad authored by
>      David<br>
>      Horowitz and last month's political cartoon by Darrin Bell as
>      other<br>
>      examples.<br><br>
>      Copies of the independent student newspaper were also stolen
>      after the
>      paper<br>
>      ran an editorial in 1996 supporting Proposition 209, which banned
>      the use
>      of<br>
>      affirmative action in state programs.<br><br>
>      &quot;We must take a stand against the continuation of a
>      systematic
>      policy of<br>
>      eliciting and reinforcing hatred and racism from our student
>      newspaper,&quot; the<br>
>      flier stated. &quot;Until the Daily Cal shifts policy we will not
>      allow
>      business<br>
>      to continue as usual. As a result, we have taken copies of
>      today's issue
>      of<br>
>      the newspaper.&quot; . . .<br><br>
>      The flier's authors, who anticipated such criticism, disagree
>      that this
>      is a<br>
>      free speech issue, calling the ad hate speech.<br><br>
>      &quot;We do not believe that hate speech, which advocates the
>      killing of
>      entire<br>
>      nations and the innocent people who live in them, is
>      protected,&quot; the
>      flier<br>
>      states. &quot;The Peikoff ad clearly crosses the line between
>      reasoned
>      debate and<br>
>      inflammatory hate mongering.&quot; . . . </font></blockquote><br>
>
>      </html>
>
>      --=====================_26038881==_.ALT--
>
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