The alleged "mob," real, fictional, or what have you

[Michael Curtis]

I also find the described behavior extremely troubling and would
regardless of which party did it.  I do not find the events as described
in the Times and the posts par for the course.  I am shocked at the
defense of such tactics.

Free speech and democracy are simply not compatible with punching,
kicking, threatening, throwing bricks, etc.  Boisterous demonstrations
are fine.  Physical attacks and threats are not.  I think it is
particularly incumbent on all of us who cherish free speech and
democracy strongly to condemn such tactics wherever they come from and
at least as strongly if they come from our end of the political
spectrum.  While I am a strong defender of free speech I would also
admit that speech can cause harm.  Overheated rhetoric about stolen
elections and shutting down vote counting contributes to a climate the
encourages such conduct and those who engage in irresponsible speech
should be held morally (though not necessarily legally) responsible.

In the past I have been equally critical of violence whether it comes
from the left or the right and as a result have come in for my share of
criticism.  I think we do no service to free speech or democracy if we
fail to condemn such behavior.  Whether it is subject to legal sanction
requires great care in separating the protected from unprotected
speech.  Throwing bricks,  kicking, punching, etc. are clearly not
protected.  The threats to break necks in NAACP v. Claiborne were
unacceptable and should be strongly condemned in my view, and that is a
different question from the liability of the NAACP in the boycott.  I
find left wing book burning as offensive as right wing book burning.  So
I have condemned students who steal and destroy student newspapers
because they contain right wing views or views they consider racist.  In
the KKK CWP shoot-out in Greensboro, NC I found it disturbing that the
CWP had attacked the Klan and broken up a meeting before the shoot-out
and repeatedly said so much to the annoyance of some liberals.

It is true of course that the violence cannot be imputed to those who
are not parties to it.

I hope my Republican friends will take the lead in deploring the tactics
that have been reported in Miami; they would have the right to expect no
less of Democrats if the situation were reversed.

Michael Kent Curtis

"Volokh, Eugene" wrote:

>
>
>         I'm sorry that Lynne was troubled by my question, and I'm
> happy that she would take the same view regardless of which party were
> involved.  But I think my question is valid:  I think we should look
> within ourselves to consider whether our judgments are tainted by
> partisanship -- I certainly try to do this myself, because it is very
> hard in such an impassioned environment to be entirely objective.  And
> my sense is indeed that people of one party often do celebrate
> boisterious demonstrations by their own while condemning quite similar
> demonstrations by the other party; but I'm very glad that Lynne is not
> one of them.
>
>         Eugene
>
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From:   Lynne Henderson [SMTP:hendersl at IX.NETCOM.COM]
>      Sent:   Tuesday, November 28, 2000 12:14 PM
>      To:     CONLAWPROF at listserv.ucla.edu
>      Subject:        Re: The alleged "mob," real, fictional, or what
>      have you
>
>      I find Eugene's questioning of our motives on the use of force
>      and intimidation troubling.  I would find the conduct described
>      in the articles I've seen as abhorent no matter which side was
>      involved.  I would deplore such tactics by Democrats. Indeed, I
>      have been holding my breath hoping Democrats who choose to
>      demonstarte would behave.  Pushing, shoving, yelling, hitting,
>      throwing one brick through a door with a message on it,
>      surrounding a Democratic representative who had to be protected
>      by law enforcement officers when he was trying to speak to the
>      mob, all are inexcusable behaviors.  Although no one would
>      prosecute someone for hoving or touching another person without
>      her/his consent, technically that is criminal behavior.  So is
>      breaking glass, refusing to obey lawful orders, etc.
>
>
>      Lynne
>           -----Original Message-----
>           From: Discussion list for con law professors
>           [mailto:CONLAWPROF at listserv.ucla.edu]On Behalf Of Volokh,
>           Eugene
>           Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 11:36 AM
>           To: CONLAWPROF at listserv.ucla.edu
>           Subject: The alleged "mob," real, fictional, or what have
>           you
>
>
>                   I do think that it might be helpful for all of us to
>           step back a bit and ask:  If the same behavior had involved,
>           say, 100 Democrat supporters demonstrating outside a place
>           where Republicans were (in their view) mistabulating the
>           election, how would we (as either Democrats or Republicans)
>           have felt?
>
>                   My sense is that the behavior alleged here is more
>           or less par for the course as demonstrations go -- mostly
>           peaceful, partly loud, with some violence by a few people,
>           and with some claim of potentially greater menace in the
>           background (either on the general "Miami is a violent place"
>           theory or on a theory that other labor or antiwar or
>           pro-civil-rights or anti-abortion or what have you
>           demonstrations have turned violent).  It may have been
>           unusual in that it took place in a public building, but that
>           just shows that the public authorities had the legal right
>           to evict the demonstrators but for whatever reason declined
>           to do so (and probably that many security officers were in
>           fact available nearby).
>
>                   But I'm well aware that my judgment may be colored
>           by the politics here, a not uncommon thing during this wild
>           and crazy election season (or perhaps during all seasons).
>
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